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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 166 of the Free Cities podcast.

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I'm going to get straight into it this week.

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Now, you think you're pretty well-travelled, right?

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You know, you're into plan Bs, nomadism, all the latest hot low-tax spots around the world.

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Well, prepare to be humbled.

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Today's guest is, well, certainly the most well-travelled person I've ever had on this pod.

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maybe even one of the most well-travelled people in the world at the moment it's hard to know for

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sure i suppose you could start with the fact that he's been to 326 of the 330 jurisdictions

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slash territories which are categorized by the traveler century club list you might wonder why

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has he not been to all 330 well three of them are inaccessible due to being military bases

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that's midway and wake island and chagos british indian ocean territory in the diego garcia area

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and the last one well it's tokelau and it's still got pandemic entry rules at the moment

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anyway he's a real one he's got the instagram feed that most influencers can only dream of

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and as he says in the interview actually he's not even promoting it it's just a private feed of his

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travels anyway here's what the ai made of our conversation in this episode timothy allen speaks

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with christoph hoyerman a perpetual traveler whose work sits at the intersection of global mobility

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asset protection and quiet preparation for uncertainty. What begins with stories of

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constant movement and remote places quickly turns into a deeper exploration of why some people choose

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to anchor themselves to a single country, system or plan. Without turning it into a how-to guide,

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the conversation moves through unclaimed territories, unusual experiments in sovereignty

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and the lived reality behind concepts like exit optionality and plan b thinking

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hoyman shares observations from years of travel and advising clients offering glimpses into how

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families entrepreneurs and retirees are responding to tightening rules and rising friction worldwide

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true the discussion also challenges common assumptions about digital nomads free cities

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and what actually creates resilience, hinting at tensions between online freedom and physical

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reality. Throughout, the focus stays practical and grounded. More about mindset and trade-offs

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than hype. Well, that's good. Thank you, AI. Glad you appreciated it. Christoph is well-known

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amongst digital nomads. His company, Statenlos, is very well-known and respected in the space.

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This is, I suppose, a wide ranging conversation about mobility, risk and the future shape of freedom is one way I would describe it.

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Talking of the future shape of freedom.

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This episode is brought to you by Veritas Villages, our wonderful lead sponsor.

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I'm trying to talk about them in different sections of the intro so you don't get bored.

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But guess what? They're building off grid, freedom oriented communities in Latin America.

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and these communities are perfect for you if you're a freedom lover looking to live amongst

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like-minded individuals in places like Nicaragua, Panama and Costa Rica. They're also great if you're

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a Bitcoiner. You can buy property with Bitcoin. You can spend BTC at the communities and they can

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even help you mine Bitcoin with the excess energy that your home will inevitably produce. They're

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already mining Bitcoin themselves and have been for a very long time. www.veritasvillages.com

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forward slash free cities for more info. Please mention us. Use that link. Contact them. And maybe

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2026 is the year you get a plan B in Central America or even as many have a plan A. Something

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we talk about a lot in this conversation. Anyway, probably time to get onto the road less traveled.

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a reminder before we go to please leave us a review on your podcasting app if you can remember

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this week i would very much appreciate it particularly if you're using apple podcasts

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my fountain.fm subs many thanks as always only one comment this week from you lot from origin drums

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he's talking about the episode last week with rahim tagizad again i was actually going to write

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to you to request a show with Rahim. And before I did there, it appeared in my feed. Many thanks,

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great show and love the podcast. Yes, I enjoyed that episode as well. And as I replied to this

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comment online, I'm going to tell you here, there's another episode with Rahim. That was number 39

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from way back in the day and the first year of this podcast where we talk about Bitcoin citadels.

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give that one a listen for an even more deeper dive into the concept also in this conversation

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Christoph mentioned they have a Statenlos family retreat this year and when I looked into it turns

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out he's doing that in conjunction with Rahim Takizadegan so very small world maybe look that

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one up if you're a fan of both Christoph and Rahim oh and by the way an addendum the diving spot

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that I can't recall in this conversation.

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It's called Sipadan and it's in Sabah, Malaysia.

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And by the looks of it, you need to go on a waiting list to dive there.

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Anyway, right.

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Time to get on as you dream of your second and third,

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fourth, fifth, sixth passport, maybe.

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You better just sit back, relax,

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and enjoy my conversation with Christoph Heuermann.

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you're you're you're a fascinating person put it that way i i don't think i understand really

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who you are or what i understand i think i understand what you do obviously

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let so let me tell you and then you can tell me where i'm wrong but you run a company that

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basically deals with helping people emigrate, asset protection, citizenship, all this kind of stuff.

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That's true, right? But also you live a very, looks like a pretty crazy life as a perpetual

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traveler. Now I know some perpetual travelers and they tend to live in Georgia for six months and

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then moved to I don't know you know Mexico but your Instagram feed is one of the most

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ridiculous out there feeds I've ever seen it's like what influencers wish wish their feed looked

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like so obviously that's intentional right but is is that are you doing that because you like it or

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because it's a challenge to sort of go

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to as many places as possible or to what the kind of inspiration behind that because you i mean like you an absolute instagram baller it it everywhere you go it very amazing like

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the last one i was looking at and i've i've not seen half of this stuff i'm pretty well traveled

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and they were like silver hotel pods like they look like spaceships where was that that was in

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Saudi Arabia actually at the Red Sea, the Shibara Resort.

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Right.

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Amazing stay we had there two weeks ago, yeah.

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So are you doing this because you want to know, you want to be able to, you want to experience

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these things so that you can then sort of talk to people about them or are you just,

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I want to go everywhere or do you actually just work from these places and...

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Yeah, I mean, it's different.

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Like, it's mostly personal curiosity that draws me to these places and it's not really

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about being an influencer.

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I'm an influencer in other things, but not on Instagram.

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In the end, it's my private account.

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I don't mind at all to earn money with my traveling.

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I just put it there for the world to see

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and for me to have good memories of the places I visited.

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Is it private?

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It's a personal account.

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I have a business Instagram account as well, which is working well,

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but this account you just mentioned is completely private.

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Right, but it's not private.

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It is public, of course.

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People can see it.

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It's just like my personal stuff where I put my personal memories, so to speak.

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And if others like it, of course, it's great.

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So why do you do that?

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I mean, let me tell you, I traveled a lot, especially in the 90s and 2000s.

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Mainly, it began as I was a backpacker, a kind of analog backpacker.

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So I did that.

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A lot of Southeast Asia, a lot.

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But I did go to, I spent two, three, four years.

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and then I had a career in photography and film and that kept me on the road for a lot of the time

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but I got exhausted and there's no question about that you get this exhaustion

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and but you don't seem to get that exhaustion how long you been doing it well I'm doing it now for

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around 11 years I just stayed three weeks in Dubai because I promised it to my partner but

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I got exhausted by staying too long in a place, I would say.

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So I'm very happy now.

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The next couple of weeks, I'm mostly one, two days in a place and move on.

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So this is more my lifestyle.

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I'm just used to it.

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It's my routine.

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And I can still have a successful business and many other projects.

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Meanwhile, it just gives me power doing it.

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Have you got a base anywhere?

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We have a base in Dubai the last three years because my girlfriend has a nine-year-old son

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and he goes to school there.

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We often travel as a family.

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often together with her only it's working very well um sometimes i'm traveling alone as well so

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yeah very different lifestyles always yeah what is your travel setup as in do you travel with many

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bags do you try are you one of those people that's an absolute zen master with packing and

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you know i travel very light basically always only with hand luggage sometimes when i go to

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Antarctica or other polar regions which happens quite often then I take a bigger bag with warm

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clothes but generally even now in Prague only with hand luggage mostly without a suit now even

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with a suit yeah I was gonna say you've got a suit but well you can't get that in hand luggage

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you can put in hand luggage yeah well and then iron it when you when it comes out oh it's okay

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you can do it if you know how to so the thing is I mean I have some other bases yeah I have

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mobile bases I have a boat currently in Colombia I have some kind of expedition track I'm actually

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visiting tomorrow in Spain.

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Sorry, Simwa?

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It's like an expedition truck, like you can say American Ram,

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a pickup truck with a cabin on top, which is like a caravan.

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So I'm using that a lot in Europe at the moment,

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and I can also leave some stuff there.

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Oh, right. Did you make that yourself?

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Yes, it's completely tailor-made.

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I let it build the last two years, and I just picked it up two months ago.

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wow um i i've got a friend who who's got an overlander truck one of those ginormous ones

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he did it himself as well he sold a company and he ended up with quite a bit of money

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and he'd always wanted one i think it costed a quarter of a million to do it or something

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but it's amazing and they really do use it but yours is more like a kind of it's a bit small

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it's just 3.5 tons because in europe you're like limited to this for many things but it's still

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amazing has a lot of power first trip i did in norway and denmark and it was a great fun like

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one month ago it was where have you been in antarctica then that's interesting i've been to

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six different places in antarctica this season i have three more cruises coming up so that's

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generally my purpose not only in arctica but all the world i really want to see like the the layer

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of the world i always say like the topography yeah so also see every region which is completely

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different in Antarctica. So I've been to all the like six politically claimed areas of Antarctica,

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like the British, Chilean, Norwegian, Argentinian territories, etc. Even at the South Pole,

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that was a great journey three years ago. And there's still so many remote islands and places,

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which is really nice for me to go to. What do you think about the current meme that there's

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something weird going on in Antarctica in the places you're not allowed to go? If you've been

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down there so many times do you know about that i mean like it's a antarctica is a place that

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basically you can't go on the whole isn't it you can go you can go basically everywhere

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can you it's a there's an arctic treaty and no one really has right over an arctic car you can

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go everywhere if you have the funds to do that and there's many like multi-millionaires who go

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there with private jets and with equipment and do their stuff what they want in an arctic drive

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around and like special upgraded cars etc it's all possible but it will cost a lot of money

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i thought that you couldn't fly across antarctica i thought that there was a

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the treaty said it was off limits you can do that even some commercial flights do that rarely because

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it's just too much of a detour fly over the south pole for example but you can do it i mean i flew

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to the south pole and there's a couple of expeditions every year where you can go there as a

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tourists there well there's a very big american base there directly at the south pole um but they

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cannot prohibit you as a tourist from going there yeah really gosh that that's weird because they're

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i don't know i i i haven't looked deeply into it but there's a lot of chatter on the internet about

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antarctica being a place i know you can go to certain places but the the sort of central regions

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Yeah, of course. I mean, it's very off limits for most people.

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Like there's two, three operators who have camps in an Antarctic mainland.

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Most people only visit on a cruise.

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But there's people doing cross-country skiing to the South Pole,

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hiking, climbing very big mountains over there.

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But yes, it's a fascinating place.

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What I really found weird all the time, they are perfectly pyramid-shaped mountains.

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Completely natural.

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So in my eyes, I think there were actually human-built pyramids back then.

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Well, that's one of the theories, isn't it?

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I've not, I don't actually, I don't think, I think that, I don't, probably don't think that's, the pictures that I've seen of them, I think, yeah, that's naturally occurring, you know, like, but it's, I'm very excited by the prospect that there is stuff there that, you know, is off limits.

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So have you been everywhere on Antarctica?

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Like all the places you can go where there are settlements?

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Not yet, but this season I do another three cruises to regions I haven't been.

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Then I've seen quite a lot.

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And what are you looking for there?

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Most people just gossip and say, oh, what's there?

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It's only white, it's only ice, there's nothing.

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But I mean, there's a lot of wildlife.

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And you have great wildlife scenes.

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Like once I encountered a couple of killer whales making waves to push the seals from the ice flows and then killing and eating them And of course it was a bit brutal but still an amazing memory

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And you have so much other nature encounters there, like the sunsets are stunning.

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The landscapes are very varied, it's not only white and ice, it's so much diversity.

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For me I like the cold, I'm not feeling very well in warm weather.

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I really like more the polar zones.

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I did, in my former life as a filmmaker,

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I worked on a big BBC project

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where we made a film over four years.

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It was called Human Planet.

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I don't know whether you remember it.

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It was one of their kind of blue chip films.

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And I had to travel to all,

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I had to travel to about 40 countries in that four years

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and go to every different, like you were saying,

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every different sort of ecosystem.

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But we did the polar ones.

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We did up in the north.

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We went to like, you know, northern Canada.

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We went to Greenland, you know.

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And I get, whenever I'm up in those places,

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I get a sense that you're not really supposed to be there.

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It's so inhospitable to humans.

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And our film was about indigenous people.

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So we were making films about people who actually tended to live in these places.

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But when you get up to those places, things become quite absurd.

215
00:18:06,656 --> 00:18:12,676
And nothing, it doesn't seem like it's the kind of place that humans, you really should be living.

216
00:18:13,516 --> 00:18:15,096
But they do, obviously.

217
00:18:15,276 --> 00:18:22,596
And also the toughest, by far the toughest places like northern, not as high up, but northern Siberia.

218
00:18:22,596 --> 00:18:24,716
they're some of the most

219
00:18:24,716 --> 00:18:26,976
extreme people

220
00:18:26,976 --> 00:18:28,356
I've ever met who live

221
00:18:28,356 --> 00:18:30,496
I mean when you

222
00:18:30,496 --> 00:18:32,696
it gets pretty, it's not too cold actually

223
00:18:32,696 --> 00:18:35,096
when you travel through Antarctica in the summer

224
00:18:35,096 --> 00:18:36,956
is it? Just maybe minus 10 degrees

225
00:18:36,956 --> 00:18:38,836
we went to the South Pole, it was good

226
00:18:38,836 --> 00:18:40,576
conditions, it was like minus 25

227
00:18:40,576 --> 00:18:42,356
you have that in the Alps as well if you ski

228
00:18:42,356 --> 00:18:44,616
yeah, but you've not travelled there

229
00:18:44,616 --> 00:18:47,096
because it can get brutal right in Antarctica

230
00:18:47,096 --> 00:18:48,796
obviously you don't go there in winter

231
00:18:48,796 --> 00:18:50,996
you cannot even fly there, no one flies there

232
00:18:50,996 --> 00:18:51,976
the people who are

233
00:18:51,976 --> 00:18:59,276
living there all year they're completely stuck for like six months in yeah that also fascinates me

234
00:18:59,276 --> 00:19:05,596
like living in one of those places yeah there's a big basis with a lot of amenities not only the

235
00:19:05,596 --> 00:19:11,696
south pole i also visited a big american station mcmurdo in the rough sea and so like like a

236
00:19:11,696 --> 00:19:16,436
village yeah like a free private city you can say and it's i mean that's interesting thing there is

237
00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:23,716
basically no really um laws there it's full autonomous research stations yeah but they're

238
00:19:23,716 --> 00:19:28,516
not private they're state-owned are they they're generally state-owned or state-affiliated yeah

239
00:19:28,516 --> 00:19:36,056
and that do they buy do they have to put you up there or do you is it up to you to bring your own

240
00:19:36,056 --> 00:19:41,096
accommodation or to no no they have all covered obviously they don't expect from you to go there

241
00:19:41,096 --> 00:19:48,156
in a tent and get through you'll probably freeze after a night yeah wow that's amazing so come on

242
00:19:48,156 --> 00:19:53,896
then what what else what are the weird weirder places you've been some somewhere i've probably

243
00:19:53,896 --> 00:20:01,276
never heard of yeah i mean i like to visit very remote island territories um there's so much and

244
00:20:01,276 --> 00:20:05,916
like the pacific and the atlantic which you just don't see on a normal world map and even if you

245
00:20:05,916 --> 00:20:11,636
zoom in they're still too small that you see them and so i've been to a lot of those places

246
00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:20,036
i also like to overland and like africa or russia to very remote places so um there's there's very

247
00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:27,556
hard to choose one yeah yeah russia the same with me russia was kind of um somewhere i think i mean

248
00:20:27,556 --> 00:20:32,016
yesterday in my talk i mentioned bierta wheel for example and there's other guys actually at

249
00:20:32,016 --> 00:20:33,736
conference here was Bir Tawil.

250
00:20:34,096 --> 00:20:34,936
How do you spell it?

251
00:20:35,236 --> 00:20:38,656
B-I-R-T-A-W-I-L.

252
00:20:39,116 --> 00:20:40,216
Bir Tawil is the only

253
00:20:40,216 --> 00:20:42,336
remaining real terra nullius

254
00:20:42,336 --> 00:20:44,016
in the world. Terra nullius means

255
00:20:44,016 --> 00:20:46,336
it's completely unclaimed by other countries.

256
00:20:46,556 --> 00:20:47,876
It's between Sudan and Egypt.

257
00:20:48,056 --> 00:20:48,996
In Czech, that's right.

258
00:20:49,056 --> 00:20:52,356
And both countries cannot claim it

259
00:20:52,356 --> 00:20:54,216
because if they would claim it, they would

260
00:20:54,216 --> 00:20:56,436
lose the claim on another territory

261
00:20:56,436 --> 00:20:58,196
at the Red Sea, which has a lot of oil

262
00:20:58,196 --> 00:20:59,756
and other interesting stuff,

263
00:21:00,276 --> 00:21:01,436
while Bir Tawil has nothing.

264
00:21:02,016 --> 00:21:03,036
So no one wants it.

265
00:21:03,676 --> 00:21:08,116
And it's a place where many people go to, to declare their own state.

266
00:21:08,516 --> 00:21:11,176
Actually, I went there in November 2019.

267
00:21:12,016 --> 00:21:15,496
4th November 2019, I declared the free city of Bieterville.

268
00:21:16,036 --> 00:21:19,816
And I put like a T-shirt of my company there with stones.

269
00:21:19,816 --> 00:21:23,916
It's probably still laying there, demarcating the territory of my own country.

270
00:21:24,296 --> 00:21:28,556
I did a talk a couple of months ago in Liberland.

271
00:21:28,556 --> 00:21:32,496
and for the talk I did a bit of research and came across that place.

272
00:21:32,636 --> 00:21:36,276
And there's a number of people that sort of take their own flags there and fly them.

273
00:21:36,556 --> 00:21:39,896
So you don't think that Gornesiga, where Liberland is,

274
00:21:39,956 --> 00:21:41,456
you don't think that's real terra nullis?

275
00:21:42,476 --> 00:21:44,456
Liberland is not real terra nullis.

276
00:21:44,916 --> 00:21:49,876
I mean, it's very hard for them to go there and set up camp there

277
00:21:49,876 --> 00:21:54,036
because they immediately fought by the Croatians.

278
00:21:54,036 --> 00:21:57,016
I mean, the Serbians tolerate them or even like them,

279
00:21:57,016 --> 00:21:59,936
but the Croatians don't really accept their claim.

280
00:22:00,156 --> 00:22:01,796
It's a nice thing to do, yeah.

281
00:22:02,236 --> 00:22:04,356
But there's, like, those terra nullius,

282
00:22:04,456 --> 00:22:06,456
there's a lot more other around the world.

283
00:22:06,616 --> 00:22:10,056
So you think if you went to Bertobille,

284
00:22:10,136 --> 00:22:10,616
how do you say it?

285
00:22:10,656 --> 00:22:11,096
Bertobille?

286
00:22:11,316 --> 00:22:11,716
Bertobille.

287
00:22:11,996 --> 00:22:12,396
Bertobille.

288
00:22:13,056 --> 00:22:14,696
If you went to Bertobille

289
00:22:14,696 --> 00:22:18,596
and started building something substantial,

290
00:22:19,256 --> 00:22:21,716
because it's a bit like a Mars landscape there, isn't it?

291
00:22:21,996 --> 00:22:24,016
It's very remote in the desert.

292
00:22:24,416 --> 00:22:26,236
We had a tour from Khartoum in Sudan.

293
00:22:26,236 --> 00:22:31,536
Well, now Sudan is in the middle of a bloody civil war, but back then it was relatively peaceful.

294
00:22:32,236 --> 00:22:34,956
And it was, I think, a five-day trip to get there from the capital.

295
00:22:35,896 --> 00:22:38,016
And the last three days, we were only in the desert.

296
00:22:38,336 --> 00:22:40,996
We just set up camp on mattresses in the desert.

297
00:22:41,116 --> 00:22:41,616
That was it.

298
00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:44,196
And we were actually finding people there.

299
00:22:44,576 --> 00:22:52,556
There were gold miners, like Arabic Battalion tribes with a lot of, I would say, slave labor from the black African countries.

300
00:22:53,136 --> 00:22:54,476
And they were exploiting gold there.

301
00:22:54,476 --> 00:22:57,356
and they thought we were Western prospectors trying to steal their gold.

302
00:22:57,476 --> 00:23:00,276
So actually we were taken hostage there for three days.

303
00:23:00,476 --> 00:23:02,116
And it was quite a tense situation.

304
00:23:02,516 --> 00:23:05,276
They had a lot of fun playing around with their Karashnikovs.

305
00:23:06,076 --> 00:23:09,616
And we had to wait for like the chief to come, but he had to come from very far.

306
00:23:09,776 --> 00:23:11,856
So they took us there in their camp.

307
00:23:12,036 --> 00:23:12,816
They treated us well.

308
00:23:12,896 --> 00:23:14,436
They even slaughtered the goat for us.

309
00:23:15,156 --> 00:23:19,176
But we couldn't leave and had to wait for like the chief.

310
00:23:19,256 --> 00:23:20,676
And it was like very funny.

311
00:23:20,676 --> 00:23:26,616
It was like an old man with like a two meter beard reaching to the ground and he negotiated with our Arab guide.

312
00:23:26,876 --> 00:23:28,236
And in the end, they let us go.

313
00:23:28,376 --> 00:23:31,756
But first, they really made these things you see before you beheaded.

314
00:23:32,356 --> 00:23:36,156
They make a video of you and you have to say where you come from.

315
00:23:36,536 --> 00:23:37,136
What's your name?

316
00:23:37,196 --> 00:23:37,456
ETC.

317
00:23:37,896 --> 00:23:39,676
So if you ever come back, then probably.

318
00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:41,036
Really?

319
00:23:41,456 --> 00:23:43,236
You like you're kneeling down.

320
00:23:43,356 --> 00:23:44,496
They're standing behind you.

321
00:23:44,676 --> 00:23:45,376
Not like that.

322
00:23:45,556 --> 00:23:46,656
But that kind of thing.

323
00:23:46,796 --> 00:23:47,536
Yeah, that kind of thing.

324
00:23:47,616 --> 00:23:47,856
Shit.

325
00:23:47,856 --> 00:23:49,956
So you thought, did you honestly, did you think?

326
00:23:49,956 --> 00:23:53,376
I didn't think I was going to die, but it was a tense situation,

327
00:23:53,776 --> 00:23:56,296
and we didn't really know what was coming towards us.

328
00:23:56,476 --> 00:23:57,016
Bloody hell.

329
00:23:57,316 --> 00:23:59,276
Did you have to pay some money to get out in the end?

330
00:23:59,356 --> 00:24:00,696
We didn't pay any money to get out.

331
00:24:00,736 --> 00:24:02,796
We even got a nice picture with Tim in the end.

332
00:24:02,936 --> 00:24:03,716
I still have that picture.

333
00:24:04,496 --> 00:24:05,476
It's a great memory.

334
00:24:05,576 --> 00:24:06,376
I wasn't there alone.

335
00:24:06,476 --> 00:24:10,496
I was there with a couple of other people who really liked those remote places

336
00:24:10,496 --> 00:24:14,916
and went there to declare their own countries, more jokingly, of course.

337
00:24:15,256 --> 00:24:19,296
But there are some people who have real intentions to settle this area,

338
00:24:19,296 --> 00:24:22,356
But they will always clash with this gold miners and so on.

339
00:24:22,516 --> 00:24:27,736
But what about if someone substantial with proper money decided, right?

340
00:24:28,396 --> 00:24:30,816
I said I can't back, but only with Blackwater.

341
00:24:31,076 --> 00:24:34,516
So if you have your private army, then you can probably colonize it.

342
00:24:34,836 --> 00:24:39,336
Well, it's the kind of place where you could, it might, like I say, it looks a bit like the Mars landscape.

343
00:24:39,596 --> 00:24:42,856
If you created domes and something like that.

344
00:24:42,856 --> 00:24:45,916
But but honestly seriously speaking do you think?

345
00:24:46,876 --> 00:24:51,016
apart from you know rogue bedouins who are with Kalashnikovs

346
00:24:51,316 --> 00:25:07,714
Would any states have an issue with you really trying to do something Do you think the thing in the past was that the Egyptian border guards wouldn let you through to go there You could only go from Sudan Now from Sudan is very difficult because there a civil war there

347
00:25:08,654 --> 00:25:11,714
And now I just bumped in this conference yesterday

348
00:25:11,714 --> 00:25:13,774
into a guy who actually been there this year.

349
00:25:13,774 --> 00:25:16,454
And he went from Egypt, which is generally much safer anyway.

350
00:25:17,234 --> 00:25:19,014
And he has intentions now to settle it.

351
00:25:19,134 --> 00:25:22,554
He has contacts to these Bedouin tribes.

352
00:25:23,114 --> 00:25:24,254
And this is in good terms with them.

353
00:25:24,254 --> 00:25:29,034
so maybe he's doing something i i find it very difficult i don't think it will work but

354
00:25:29,034 --> 00:25:34,874
give it a try yeah in what sense does he want to settle it in in because it's not a very hospitable

355
00:25:34,874 --> 00:25:39,414
place i mean you can't you have to take i mean it's still more hospital than antarctica for

356
00:25:39,414 --> 00:25:45,894
example yeah rather a stone desert than an ice desert and i mean it's not too remote yeah i mean

357
00:25:45,894 --> 00:25:51,234
it's maybe a day drive from like the nearest settlement in egypt um where you can fly to

358
00:25:51,234 --> 00:25:59,114
but that's okay yeah and i mean uh people claimed everywhere on planet earth and probably will claim

359
00:25:59,114 --> 00:26:03,114
some other planets soon as well and there the logistics are even more difficult yeah

360
00:26:03,114 --> 00:26:09,434
you said you had a boat have you taken that to some pretty extreme places or are you a good sailor

361
00:26:09,434 --> 00:26:15,954
yeah i got the boat during the pandemic times so we used it a lot to sail away from lockdowns

362
00:26:15,954 --> 00:26:18,554
We did a transatlantic crossing.

363
00:26:18,554 --> 00:26:25,394
We went from, in the end, from Croatia to Brazil, with like stops in Gibraltar, Canary

364
00:26:25,394 --> 00:26:26,394
Islands, Cape Verde.

365
00:26:26,394 --> 00:26:32,974
And that's a very nice island just in the middle of the Atlantic between Cape Verde and Brazil,

366
00:26:32,974 --> 00:26:36,014
which is called the San Peter and Paul rocks.

367
00:26:36,014 --> 00:26:39,614
Yeah, I think not many people have been there.

368
00:26:39,614 --> 00:26:44,434
It's just like a couple of rocks in the middle of the ocean with a lighthouse on top of it.

369
00:26:44,434 --> 00:26:49,314
one was in the lighthouse during COVID. Unfortunately, we couldn't land because it was quite rough waves.

370
00:26:49,554 --> 00:26:55,414
But I flew my drone there. And there were like millions of birds and they were chasing my drone

371
00:26:55,414 --> 00:27:01,834
in the end. So that was a fun experience. And what do you like when you drone a place? What do you do

372
00:27:01,834 --> 00:27:06,474
with the footage? Do you use that for anything? Or is it just for personal fun? It's just for personal fun.

373
00:27:06,474 --> 00:27:12,134
And I uploaded it on my personal Instagram. But I don't really do much with it. But I still have a lot

374
00:27:12,134 --> 00:27:16,874
of footage. The big thing is I don't really like being recorded while I'm traveling. I'm not a

375
00:27:16,874 --> 00:27:22,634
travel influencer. Many people are. I could probably be a quite influential travel influencer

376
00:27:22,634 --> 00:27:29,114
if I would record everything. But I just like to make pictures for personal pleasure. And I'm

377
00:27:29,114 --> 00:27:32,634
influencing in other areas like what you mentioned in the beginning of my business.

378
00:27:33,374 --> 00:27:38,874
I know what you mean. As someone that traveled for work for a long time,

379
00:27:38,874 --> 00:27:45,734
the when you have to get the camera out the time all the time it really gets on your

380
00:27:45,734 --> 00:27:53,354
what's the word i can't without swearing it annoys you intensely in the end and you realize

381
00:27:53,354 --> 00:27:58,674
it's literally a barrier between what you're experiencing and what you're doing and and then

382
00:27:58,674 --> 00:28:04,754
my used to get my stomach used to turn i have to give it up in the end i did i i worked from 2000

383
00:28:04,754 --> 00:28:14,474
to what for 20 years i was a journalist and a filmmaker and now i mean this i got into podcasting

384
00:28:14,474 --> 00:28:18,474
because i just loved the fact i mean we're recording it now it's got video and stuff but

385
00:28:18,474 --> 00:28:23,954
before video it was just voices and that was the most liberating thing i'd done in years i really

386
00:28:23,954 --> 00:28:31,354
enjoyed it and ironically as well you could convey far more information in a conversation than you

387
00:28:31,354 --> 00:28:37,174
could making a film anyway in a fraction of the time and a fraction of the cost so it made a lot

388
00:28:37,174 --> 00:28:43,434
of sense but um but when i think about what you're doing i do think there are people who would say

389
00:28:43,434 --> 00:28:48,234
wow you know that what a wasted opportunity i know you don't think of it like that and i know

390
00:28:48,234 --> 00:28:55,354
you enjoy it and screw everyone else but you know i mean how many places have you been do you know

391
00:28:55,354 --> 00:29:00,934
i mean there's a american travel club called tcc traveler century club and it divides the world

392
00:29:00,934 --> 00:29:08,714
into 330 territories and i had to go to visit everyone i'm now at 326 so four are missing but

393
00:29:08,714 --> 00:29:13,954
they're currently impossible they're all american military bases where you can't go really so you've

394
00:29:13,954 --> 00:29:17,894
done it everywhere possible everywhere i mean there's a lot of other regions it's still the

395
00:29:17,894 --> 00:29:22,394
world is still bigger still have a lot of destinations but like this list is about like

396
00:29:22,394 --> 00:29:26,954
autonomous territories with their own laws and things like that and i've done everywhere there

397
00:29:26,954 --> 00:29:28,694
And where are the American bases then?

398
00:29:29,114 --> 00:29:32,054
Well, it's in the Pacific, like Midway, Wake Island,

399
00:29:32,414 --> 00:29:34,594
very popular in the Second World War.

400
00:29:35,154 --> 00:29:39,134
There is Chagos, British Indian Ocean territory,

401
00:29:39,694 --> 00:29:42,554
which was quite in the media the last years

402
00:29:42,554 --> 00:29:45,054
because they want to give it back to Mauritius,

403
00:29:45,714 --> 00:29:48,414
which probably gives me an opportunity to visit it.

404
00:29:48,794 --> 00:29:50,994
And there's one island which is not a military base.

405
00:29:51,114 --> 00:29:53,594
They still have pandemic rules in place, so you cannot visit.

406
00:29:53,874 --> 00:29:55,274
It's called Tokolau.

407
00:29:55,274 --> 00:29:58,074
It's like an associated territory of New Zealand in the Pacific.

408
00:29:58,714 --> 00:30:01,614
So this is probably also going to open up in the next couple of years,

409
00:30:01,874 --> 00:30:03,374
and I will still visit it.

410
00:30:03,674 --> 00:30:06,274
What about that place?

411
00:30:06,974 --> 00:30:08,494
I think it's an Indian territory.

412
00:30:08,574 --> 00:30:09,554
Is it the Andaman Islands?

413
00:30:09,794 --> 00:30:10,174
Where is that?

414
00:30:10,294 --> 00:30:10,874
Andaman, yeah.

415
00:30:10,914 --> 00:30:11,614
Andaman is great.

416
00:30:11,714 --> 00:30:13,654
I've been there this year for over a week.

417
00:30:13,854 --> 00:30:15,014
I did a lot of diving there.

418
00:30:15,354 --> 00:30:18,154
But which is the place that has a tribe living on it?

419
00:30:18,354 --> 00:30:19,494
Yeah, it's in the Andaman Islands.

420
00:30:19,754 --> 00:30:20,974
It's North Sentinel Island.

421
00:30:21,094 --> 00:30:21,934
North Sentinel Island.

422
00:30:21,954 --> 00:30:23,314
It's around 20 kilometers.

423
00:30:23,314 --> 00:30:25,594
I haven't been there, but I've seen the island.

424
00:30:25,714 --> 00:30:27,834
You can see it from the mainland, from the main island.

425
00:30:28,654 --> 00:30:32,154
Obviously, it's dangerous to go there, and it's prohibited,

426
00:30:32,654 --> 00:30:35,974
and you will probably face a couple of years in an Indian prison

427
00:30:35,974 --> 00:30:37,094
if you try to go there.

428
00:30:37,314 --> 00:30:37,614
Really?

429
00:30:37,614 --> 00:30:41,814
So I didn't, but it's a fascinating island, definitely.

430
00:30:42,174 --> 00:30:42,694
Yeah, I know.

431
00:30:43,274 --> 00:30:46,414
I mean, didn't a guy lose his life there recently?

432
00:30:46,454 --> 00:30:47,694
Yes, no, not recently.

433
00:30:47,774 --> 00:30:48,814
That was a couple of years ago,

434
00:30:48,814 --> 00:30:53,094
but recently a guy went there in a little inflatable boat,

435
00:30:53,314 --> 00:30:59,394
But before he could land, he was detained by the Indian Marine and faces prison time.

436
00:30:59,774 --> 00:31:05,534
When we were making that film, I was telling you about one of the episodes we did on the jungle.

437
00:31:06,234 --> 00:31:11,894
We got permission to fly over uncontacted tribes in Brazil.

438
00:31:12,734 --> 00:31:16,014
And unfortunately for me, I was scheduled to be on the flight.

439
00:31:16,014 --> 00:31:27,154
And then right at the last minute, they insisted on sending their own photographer who worked for the, I forget the name of the organization.

440
00:31:27,834 --> 00:31:37,994
But that footage is the most incredible footage I've ever watched in my life of people, basically, as they were flying around.

441
00:31:38,134 --> 00:31:42,014
And the whole thing, when you think about it, I mean, it's probably completely unethical as well.

442
00:31:42,094 --> 00:31:43,014
They weren't close.

443
00:31:43,494 --> 00:31:44,294
They were flying around.

444
00:31:44,294 --> 00:31:48,994
And we had the Cineflex camera, which back in those days was so that you could shoot long distance.

445
00:31:48,994 --> 00:31:55,154
And they came out completely covered in red, firing bows and arrows at the plane and stuff.

446
00:31:55,294 --> 00:31:57,454
And I watched it over and over again.

447
00:31:57,654 --> 00:32:01,674
And it's just such a bizarre and crazy thing to think about.

448
00:32:02,074 --> 00:32:03,194
And there's quite a number.

449
00:32:03,334 --> 00:32:05,634
I mean, these guys, forget the name of the organization now.

450
00:32:05,674 --> 00:32:09,574
It was something like the National Organization of Protected Peoples or whatever.

451
00:32:09,574 --> 00:32:15,194
their idea was look if we let the bbc fly over here and shoot this we only have to do this once

452
00:32:15,194 --> 00:32:19,534
and then everyone the footage is free everyone can use it and it was i mean people still use

453
00:32:19,534 --> 00:32:26,114
that footage to this day but just the i'm fascinated by the thought of people living in

454
00:32:26,114 --> 00:32:30,934
that isolated a lot there's so many nice tribes all around the world some more civilized some

455
00:32:30,934 --> 00:32:36,854
others not and i've been to places in like papua new guinea or in the jungle in africa

456
00:32:36,854 --> 00:32:42,054
where they really live like they did 10 000 of years ago like the pygmy tribes in africa

457
00:32:42,054 --> 00:32:50,534
hunting with like little tubes for the monkeys and have very fascinating tattoos and things like that

458
00:32:50,534 --> 00:32:56,934
so it's very interesting how how men choose to divert live lifestyles in the last couple of

459
00:32:56,934 --> 00:33:03,054
thousand years well it's i i think is what the most fascinating thing is realizing that there's

460
00:33:03,054 --> 00:33:07,614
not much difference between you and them it's just a cultural thing and a few

461
00:33:07,614 --> 00:33:12,654
like technological advances. We lived with the Bayaka people do you know them?

462
00:33:12,654 --> 00:33:19,934
They're in the Congo and we what's that Central African Republic we had to fly a private

463
00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:25,372
plane in because you couldn't go in and we made a film about them climbing the trees to collect

464
00:33:25,372 --> 00:33:32,112
honey you know like from bees oh my god it was the most insane thing there were these 40 meter trees

465
00:33:32,112 --> 00:33:38,512
and they just lash a kind of um bit of liana around the tree and then round their back and

466
00:33:38,512 --> 00:33:45,352
then just go up this tree with with like they used to set fire to um leaves as well to create smoke

467
00:33:45,352 --> 00:33:49,552
so they kind of just climb these trees with burning leaves and then when they get there

468
00:33:49,552 --> 00:33:50,592
The bees attack them.

469
00:33:51,012 --> 00:33:58,312
It's just like people's risk tolerance in places like that is completely different to us.

470
00:33:58,472 --> 00:33:59,992
We have no concept.

471
00:34:00,372 --> 00:34:01,652
I've found that a lot of places.

472
00:34:01,812 --> 00:34:04,332
I used to travel to Mongolia a lot every year.

473
00:34:04,712 --> 00:34:05,532
It's the same there.

474
00:34:05,672 --> 00:34:09,632
If you said to a Mongolian, can we get up that mountain?

475
00:34:10,252 --> 00:34:11,712
They just say, yeah, let's go for it.

476
00:34:12,092 --> 00:34:17,472
Whereas if you said it to one of us or a climber, they would be like, well, let's think about this.

477
00:34:17,472 --> 00:34:18,832
We're going to need this, this, this.

478
00:34:18,832 --> 00:34:28,632
But we have this complete risk and that way of analyzing risk, which is different to your average form of a human who, I don't know.

479
00:34:28,712 --> 00:34:31,252
I think we just, I think we live too comfortable a lives.

480
00:34:31,332 --> 00:34:32,552
I think that's probably where it comes.

481
00:34:32,952 --> 00:34:36,972
I mean, you, like when I look at your Instagram, you do seem to travel very comfortably.

482
00:34:37,252 --> 00:34:40,452
But also you do do the kind of like hardcore stuff as well.

483
00:34:40,932 --> 00:34:44,612
Yeah, I mean, I just mentioned it yesterday in a chat about travel.

484
00:34:44,612 --> 00:34:48,212
Some people choose to like hitchhike their way through Africa.

485
00:34:48,212 --> 00:34:50,652
It's a nice travel experience.

486
00:34:50,652 --> 00:34:51,972
But I mean, I'm not only a traveler.

487
00:34:51,972 --> 00:34:55,152
I have this successful business with many employees.

488
00:34:55,152 --> 00:34:57,932
I'm a shareholder of over 50 companies worldwide.

489
00:34:57,932 --> 00:35:01,312
We have a lot of things to do every day.

490
00:35:01,312 --> 00:35:06,932
And I can't just do that with limited internet, 12 hours a day in a bus.

491
00:35:06,932 --> 00:35:08,972
It's not working.

492
00:35:08,972 --> 00:35:13,812
In the other way, I earn enough money to get my private drivers, my private guides driving

493
00:35:13,812 --> 00:35:18,212
me around and actually telling me the history and many other stuff which I wouldn't get

494
00:35:18,212 --> 00:35:20,292
if I was just sitting in a bus.

495
00:35:20,452 --> 00:35:22,972
You might get, of course, nicer experiences with locals.

496
00:35:23,652 --> 00:35:24,852
For me, it's not that important.

497
00:35:25,012 --> 00:35:26,252
I'm more like an introvert guy.

498
00:35:26,412 --> 00:35:28,932
I don't need to speak every day with thousands of people.

499
00:35:29,372 --> 00:35:32,832
I'm rather interested in the history, the culture,

500
00:35:33,172 --> 00:35:35,852
and the nature and so on of countries.

501
00:35:36,272 --> 00:35:39,372
When you travel in the truck, do you live in the truck?

502
00:35:39,772 --> 00:35:40,772
I live in the truck, yeah.

503
00:35:40,772 --> 00:35:43,932
It has a very nice cabin in there, quite a lot of amenities.

504
00:35:44,632 --> 00:35:46,092
So I built it just for the purpose.

505
00:35:46,092 --> 00:35:53,792
to now like this year i have like 120 flights um so from next year on i would like to reduce it to

506
00:35:53,792 --> 00:35:59,612
maybe half or one third and travel more overland with that truck or more overseas with my boat

507
00:35:59,612 --> 00:36:04,812
what's your internet set up in the truck then is it starlink it has starlink yeah but i mean in

508
00:36:04,812 --> 00:36:11,412
europe i went to norway for my virgin voyage i didn't use starlink because there's like 5g mobile

509
00:36:11,412 --> 00:36:16,952
everywhere. Starlink must be a game changer for you. It was for me mainly for Antarctica yeah

510
00:36:16,952 --> 00:36:22,992
because before I have an online business I can take luckily I can take like one or two weeks off

511
00:36:22,992 --> 00:36:29,432
but it will still damage my business quite a lot but with Starlink now and start basically on every

512
00:36:29,432 --> 00:36:34,492
cruise ship going down there I don't have an issue anymore and I do a lot of those cruises which are

513
00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:40,672
often quite long and actually Antarctica the last couple of years was the like region I spend most

514
00:36:40,672 --> 00:36:47,492
days in every year because each cruise takes two three four weeks and it's great for working for me

515
00:36:47,492 --> 00:36:52,652
yeah you have a great experience with the nature but you have a lot of downtime as well and for me

516
00:36:52,652 --> 00:36:57,052
it's a very like peaceful area to get some work done yeah what do you actually have to do on a

517
00:36:57,052 --> 00:37:03,532
day-to-day basis then for say start and loss is do you are you a hands-on like you said you've

518
00:37:03,532 --> 00:37:08,872
invested in 50 businesses that obviously means you can't spend a huge amount of time i mean

519
00:37:08,872 --> 00:37:11,652
Can you explain what Statenlos is first?

520
00:37:11,952 --> 00:37:16,312
Yeah, I mean, Statenlos is a consulting agency where people become more free and wealthy

521
00:37:16,312 --> 00:37:19,212
by applying international strategies to their life,

522
00:37:19,392 --> 00:37:24,772
like shifting their residency, citizenship, companies, bank accounts, insurances,

523
00:37:24,952 --> 00:37:25,832
and many other things.

524
00:37:25,972 --> 00:37:30,272
So basically everything which can be done in another country in a better way,

525
00:37:30,392 --> 00:37:31,172
we can help with.

526
00:37:31,672 --> 00:37:34,512
And what do you do at Statenlos on a day-to-day basis?

527
00:37:34,512 --> 00:37:41,172
So currently I have like around seven full-time employees, a couple of freelancers which do

528
00:37:41,172 --> 00:37:43,172
most of the work I don't want to do.

529
00:37:43,172 --> 00:37:49,292
I still do quite a lot of sales and consulting, but I do it in a very efficient way over the

530
00:37:49,292 --> 00:37:50,292
years.

531
00:37:50,292 --> 00:37:54,752
I found just efficient way of doing things when probably working around three, four hours

532
00:37:54,752 --> 00:37:57,192
a day.

533
00:37:57,192 --> 00:38:00,832
And that's enough to like help a lot of clients.

534
00:38:00,832 --> 00:38:06,072
I mostly do consultings, some calls, mostly voice messages to help people with their problems.

535
00:38:06,532 --> 00:38:08,152
And then coordinate my employees.

536
00:38:09,112 --> 00:38:12,172
A lot of podcasts like this almost every day.

537
00:38:13,212 --> 00:38:15,432
I mean, I'm mostly focused on the German market.

538
00:38:15,432 --> 00:38:20,152
I mostly have Germans with Austrian clients, but we have international presence as well.

539
00:38:20,292 --> 00:38:24,012
We do everything in English and Spanish and Portuguese and other languages as well.

540
00:38:24,792 --> 00:38:26,552
And we do it everywhere in the world.

541
00:38:26,552 --> 00:38:34,072
Yeah, so most like tax lawyers for example, they are in Cyprus in Dubai in Hong Kong and they just sell you this solution

542
00:38:34,072 --> 00:38:39,072
Because they don't have any idea of the world and we do all the world every attractive country

543
00:38:39,072 --> 00:38:42,152
We provide solutions for our clients

544
00:38:42,152 --> 00:38:48,852
So when you say you personally do consulting do you mean one-on-one or do you consult for you know?

545
00:38:48,852 --> 00:38:53,992
It's online it's online consulting. Yeah, but it's for individuals, right? It's for individuals sometimes companies as well

546
00:38:53,992 --> 00:38:55,532
It's very heterogeneous.

547
00:38:55,532 --> 00:38:56,752
It's a very nice thing.

548
00:38:57,292 --> 00:39:07,052
I have everything from like little families who are just employed and want to get out of the system up to multimillionaires with a huge business conglomerate.

549
00:39:07,592 --> 00:39:13,332
From like 14 year olds who want to start the business but can't because they're not 18 yet.

550
00:39:13,732 --> 00:39:20,652
Up to last month, I had a 90 year old grandma who wanted to emigrate to Costa Rica.

551
00:39:20,972 --> 00:39:23,092
Without her, she said brainwash family.

552
00:39:23,092 --> 00:39:24,452
And she actually did it, yeah.

553
00:39:25,592 --> 00:39:28,352
What's the biggest trend you can see at the moment then?

554
00:39:28,712 --> 00:39:32,812
The most obvious trend amongst people, you know, in your business?

555
00:39:32,812 --> 00:39:34,912
Yeah, I mean, global mobility really increases, yeah.

556
00:39:35,072 --> 00:39:38,012
Especially I saw it after the pandemic, but even before.

557
00:39:38,552 --> 00:39:41,952
In the beginning, when I started my business 10 years ago, it was like the typical people,

558
00:39:42,272 --> 00:39:45,972
like digital entrepreneurs, digital freelancers coming to me.

559
00:39:46,132 --> 00:39:46,812
Now it's everyone.

560
00:39:47,232 --> 00:39:49,372
It's a lot of pensioners.

561
00:39:49,572 --> 00:39:51,452
It's a lot of families with kids.

562
00:39:51,452 --> 00:39:56,252
also for the purpose for example in many european countries you have very like strict laws on

563
00:39:56,252 --> 00:40:00,992
homeschooling and those parents don't want to send their kids to school anymore because you're

564
00:40:00,992 --> 00:40:05,912
completely brainwashed there and you have a lot of security risks nowadays so they just want to

565
00:40:05,912 --> 00:40:10,572
homeschool them it's prohibited so they come to me for solutions how to live a free life as a family

566
00:40:10,572 --> 00:40:17,472
internationally what do you think about something we talk about quite a lot on this podcast is

567
00:40:17,472 --> 00:40:25,172
then the reality of free cities in the future may not really be that much to do with

568
00:40:25,172 --> 00:40:32,772
mobile westerners if you know what i mean and more to do with like local people moving to

569
00:40:32,772 --> 00:40:38,232
free cities for a better standard of living what's your opinion on that i think i've gone

570
00:40:38,232 --> 00:40:45,552
through a couple of iterations of ideas about this about how important mobile westerners are really

571
00:40:45,552 --> 00:40:50,592
yeah it's actually interesting i think you didn't hear my talk yesterday at the conference i exactly

572
00:40:50,592 --> 00:40:59,192
took this topic there like the title of my talk was why do you need free cities if you can live

573
00:40:59,192 --> 00:41:04,872
tax-free everywhere because us as mobile westerners if you know how to do it we can live in every

574
00:41:04,872 --> 00:41:09,232
country of the world completely tax-free with a lot of other advantages and we don't really need

575
00:41:09,232 --> 00:41:15,232
free cities because it's just more attractive somewhere else because free cities in the beginning

576
00:41:15,232 --> 00:41:17,232
especially don't have the infrastructure,

577
00:41:17,232 --> 00:41:19,232
which is attractive for us.

578
00:41:19,232 --> 00:41:22,232
So I made the point yesterday in my presentation

579
00:41:22,232 --> 00:41:24,232
that free cities should draw more physical workers,

580
00:41:24,232 --> 00:41:25,232
physical businesses.

581
00:41:25,232 --> 00:41:27,232
And by doing that, of course,

582
00:41:27,232 --> 00:41:30,232
they make it more attractive for digital nomads as well.

583
00:41:30,232 --> 00:41:34,232
So digital nomads can come, can invest,

584
00:41:34,232 --> 00:41:45,130
can have maybe certain advantages as well but in the end I think the focus should be on the people and there a lot of people who want to emigrate but they don have a digital business They don want one

585
00:41:45,590 --> 00:41:49,030
They have other skills and there's basically no alternatives.

586
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:49,330
Yeah.

587
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:54,610
Um, there's lots of tech sevens over 50 tech sevens in the world where you can live tech

588
00:41:54,610 --> 00:42:00,910
three digitally, but there's basically no tech seven where you can live tech three physically.

589
00:42:00,910 --> 00:42:13,010
And I think free cities can really like serve the gap for those people by having low, not necessarily zero, but low taxes and especially a very good regulatory environment.

590
00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:15,090
And that's also interesting for me.

591
00:42:15,330 --> 00:42:22,730
Yeah, I have a lot of digital business, but I'm invested a lot in analog projects as well.

592
00:42:22,910 --> 00:42:28,470
Like I have a lot of agricultural projects, for example, a walnut plantation in Georgia, a winery in Argentina.

593
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:31,630
I'm a lot invested into mining and so on.

594
00:42:32,090 --> 00:42:34,050
And this is all an analogous project.

595
00:42:34,670 --> 00:42:39,150
And I'm also really willing in the future to have my own restaurant, my own hotel and things like that.

596
00:42:39,470 --> 00:42:43,110
But I don't obviously want to do it in Europe with very high regulation and taxes.

597
00:42:43,550 --> 00:42:47,430
But I could really imagine doing that in a free city if there's nice conditions.

598
00:42:47,790 --> 00:42:52,610
Do you think the digital nomads are a powerful group then or not, really?

599
00:42:53,170 --> 00:42:54,870
They are quite a big group nowadays.

600
00:42:54,870 --> 00:43:01,330
but honestly you have to say many digital nomads are really low earning freelancers.

601
00:43:01,330 --> 00:43:08,250
There's a couple of digital entrepreneurs making quite a lot of money but I would say 90% of digital nomads

602
00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:13,870
have less than $3,000, $2,000 a month. So they get by, they have the lifestyle they wish to

603
00:43:13,870 --> 00:43:22,870
but they don't really have the power to change much. They're just struggling and getting by more or less.

604
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:36,530
When I've had a couple of conversations with nomad influencers recently who've said that they're like for not first movers, but they're early movers to a place that can actually put a place on a map.

605
00:43:36,830 --> 00:43:51,110
I think some examples, someone, one of them said that they thought that Lisbon really was, you know, the nomad influence on Lisbon had made it much more.

606
00:43:51,110 --> 00:43:52,570
Do you think there's any truth in that?

607
00:43:52,870 --> 00:44:01,130
Yes, that's true. I mean, there's a lot of nomad bubbles, I tend to call them, places like Bali or Cape Town or Lisbon, for example.

608
00:44:02,170 --> 00:44:08,250
And many people just go to these places, they stay there a couple of miles and then they go somewhere else.

609
00:44:08,290 --> 00:44:16,350
For me, that's not even nomadism. I always have problems with the term digital nomad, because most of these people are not really nomads in my eyes.

610
00:44:16,350 --> 00:44:18,170
I'm more of a nomad but anyway

611
00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:20,470
I generally tend to avoid

612
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:21,970
these places yeah I go to many

613
00:44:21,970 --> 00:44:24,350
places in the world for a long

614
00:44:24,350 --> 00:44:25,990
time I haven't been to Bali

615
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:28,430
I still haven't been to many popular nomad places

616
00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:29,730
because for me it's just not interesting

617
00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:32,190
but what I mean is do you think

618
00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:34,490
there's truth in the fact that

619
00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:36,430
nomads can elevate a place

620
00:44:36,430 --> 00:44:36,990
and then

621
00:44:36,990 --> 00:44:40,150
not just for themselves but for

622
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:41,470
and then everyone goes there

623
00:44:41,470 --> 00:44:44,570
they gentrify places

624
00:44:44,570 --> 00:44:46,330
because if a lot of nomads come

625
00:44:46,330 --> 00:44:51,090
there will be nice restaurants and bars and so on popping up but there will also be a lot of

626
00:44:51,090 --> 00:44:58,270
problems like you have in lisbon with very high rentals now lots of airbnbs instead of long-term

627
00:44:58,270 --> 00:45:05,830
flats and that of course um makes trouble with the local population and uh yeah political

628
00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:12,430
intervention to solve that yeah did you did i hear you right you said just earlier that you could

629
00:45:12,430 --> 00:45:18,250
live tax-free in any country if you know how to do it and if you have the right citizenship and

630
00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:24,170
residence is possible how do i live tax-free in the uk then that seems incredible but obviously

631
00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:30,190
not all of the year yeah that's always the thing um you basically have to leave your home country

632
00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:36,070
at least parts of the year in the uk depends uk has a bit more complicated rules if you're a

633
00:45:36,070 --> 00:45:41,610
british citizen you're often limited to just be there like 90 days a year or even less but as a

634
00:45:41,610 --> 00:45:47,750
German without any further ties to UK like a property there or business there I can easily

635
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:52,910
visit the UK also half a year every year and live there right I see and then there's like special

636
00:45:52,910 --> 00:45:58,910
programs I mean that it's a big point at the moment yeah there's this or there was the so

637
00:45:58,910 --> 00:46:04,110
called non-domiciled system in the UK where you could live basically tax-free in the UK for 17

638
00:46:04,110 --> 00:46:10,490
years and a lot of billionaires made use of that but it was cancelled last year and now a lot of

639
00:46:10,490 --> 00:46:20,090
wealth exited the UK to other places. And I think the tax didn't went up, it fell down like

640
00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:26,630
a lot of percentages. Because of course, the richer you are, the more flexible you are,

641
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:32,630
and those people just leave to better jurisdictions. I think it's true as well. I own a property in the

642
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:37,750
UK. That's a bad thing for tax, isn't it? That gives you a further tie and reduces the amount

643
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:43,070
of days you can stay there so often brits can only visit like 30 to 60 days in their home country

644
00:46:43,070 --> 00:46:47,930
and then they need like two other places to live around the world but it can still be fine for many

645
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:56,270
people what do you think would be one of the better strategies for a family then like because

646
00:46:56,270 --> 00:47:02,810
i think the problem like when i was young and single and free i could it was amazing but with

647
00:47:02,810 --> 00:47:08,830
a family it's very and i mean the kind of things like you know you don't really want to be moving

648
00:47:08,830 --> 00:47:12,730
your kids out of a school and they make a bunch of friends i think things like that can really

649
00:47:12,730 --> 00:47:18,130
undermine your children's yeah definitely i mean we have the same my partner is a nine-year son

650
00:47:18,130 --> 00:47:22,170
that's why we're based in dubai the last three years so he can go to school there have his friends

651
00:47:22,170 --> 00:47:28,750
but we will uh next year when he finishes primary school we will try homeschooling for a year

652
00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:33,830
but we actively have the opportunities to give them friends there as well.

653
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:37,450
For example, in 10 days in Portugal, we make a big conference

654
00:47:37,450 --> 00:47:40,330
with a lot of homeschooling families from our community

655
00:47:40,330 --> 00:47:43,630
and we have like 100 kids there with their parents

656
00:47:43,630 --> 00:47:46,190
one week in the Algarve coast

657
00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:50,970
and they just connect each other, find other children to play with

658
00:47:50,970 --> 00:47:53,210
and meet them up everywhere in the world.

659
00:47:53,470 --> 00:47:55,890
Is that the Statenlos Conference?

660
00:47:56,090 --> 00:47:57,850
It's like the Statenlos Family Conference.

661
00:47:57,850 --> 00:48:02,850
Just intended for families who are interested in international lifestyle.

662
00:48:02,850 --> 00:48:04,850
And I mean the concepts are very diverse.

663
00:48:04,850 --> 00:48:07,850
There's a couple of families who are quite nomads.

664
00:48:07,850 --> 00:48:09,850
They move every one to two months.

665
00:48:09,850 --> 00:48:12,850
Most people have like their base, like two bases.

666
00:48:12,850 --> 00:48:16,850
And it's possible you can have a house in many countries without triggering any taxation.

667
00:48:16,850 --> 00:48:20,850
Especially in the Mediterranean, like in Spain, in Italy, in Greece and so on.

668
00:48:20,850 --> 00:48:23,850
You can buy or rent a house, live there half a year.

669
00:48:23,850 --> 00:48:29,050
half a year then you move to another mediterranean location live there another six months of course

670
00:48:29,050 --> 00:48:36,030
some parents or some kids want to go to school then you maybe have a fixed base and but in a

671
00:48:36,030 --> 00:48:41,850
nice country like panama or dubai and you still travel a lot but the kids can go to school there

672
00:48:41,850 --> 00:48:48,230
yeah so there's a lot of opportunities we yeah we traveled with our family for a year during the

673
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:53,190
pandemic and one of the first things we did whenever we arrived at a place was find the

674
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:59,430
local homeschooling telegram groups and it was very easy to meet people uh you know that whole

675
00:48:59,430 --> 00:49:04,290
network of homeschoolers now it really increases yeah i mean when i started out 10 years ago

676
00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:09,130
especially like in german there was basically nothing now there's like 50 competing german

677
00:49:09,130 --> 00:49:14,190
speaking online schools and then on a very scale you have even more options so and it's really also

678
00:49:14,190 --> 00:49:21,690
a change in mentality yeah also the pandemic helped a lot because a lot of parents had to

679
00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:26,090
homeschool their kids or didn't want to send them to school anymore couldn't send them to school

680
00:49:26,090 --> 00:49:32,190
and i think generally families get much more mobile nowadays much more flexible

681
00:49:32,190 --> 00:49:39,790
and like those thoughts people generally have grew up with you need a home you need to live

682
00:49:39,790 --> 00:49:44,150
there all the time you need to pay your taxes they are getting shattered more and more i think

683
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:49,970
it's a good development do you think states around especially europe and england

684
00:49:49,970 --> 00:50:06,528
UK these kind of do you think they gonna they catching up with all this stuff or do you think they gonna Because like normally Things like this would make a state compel it to be more competitive to try and attract you right but what we we actually see the opposite of that now in the

685
00:50:06,528 --> 00:50:12,068
uk for example we see them blocking you from leaving instead of like trying to attract you

686
00:50:12,068 --> 00:50:15,688
they're saying right now there's an exit tax or there's a wealth tax or something

687
00:50:15,688 --> 00:50:20,708
where do you think this is all going because like more and more people are almost certainly

688
00:50:20,708 --> 00:50:22,268
going to start thinking like this?

689
00:50:22,748 --> 00:50:24,228
Well, you see both developments.

690
00:50:24,548 --> 00:50:27,968
Some countries, of course, try to increase their exit barriers.

691
00:50:28,188 --> 00:50:31,868
They introduce exit taxes or other laws, like France, for example,

692
00:50:32,568 --> 00:50:35,888
at the moment has the idea to introduce citizenship-based taxation,

693
00:50:36,048 --> 00:50:39,668
like in the US, and other Western European nations may follow.

694
00:50:40,068 --> 00:50:42,728
And then you may be even forced to give up your citizenship,

695
00:50:42,948 --> 00:50:43,648
get another one.

696
00:50:44,128 --> 00:50:45,828
Some people are pondering that option.

697
00:50:46,208 --> 00:50:48,268
On the other hand, you see a lot of countries nowadays

698
00:50:48,268 --> 00:50:52,648
providing these options, making it much easier to emigrate with certain conditions,

699
00:50:52,648 --> 00:50:58,648
not illegal migration to Germany. Germany has not a single legal investor

700
00:50:58,648 --> 00:51:02,608
migration program, but if you come there for a way of passport, you're warmly

701
00:51:02,608 --> 00:51:08,368
welcomed and on social security, which is multiple of what you would earn with 60

702
00:51:08,368 --> 00:51:14,548
days work in your home country. But a lot of southern European nations

703
00:51:14,548 --> 00:51:20,868
have recognized that like Greece or Italy, Spain, Portugal. They put on investor programs to get

704
00:51:20,868 --> 00:51:25,428
like a visa for real estate investment and things like that. And they have a lot of tax breaks as

705
00:51:25,428 --> 00:51:31,988
well. So as a foreigner, you can live completely tax free for a long time in Spain, in Portugal, in

706
00:51:32,788 --> 00:51:41,848
Cyprus, Malta, many other places. So do you think it's a constant, like, swinging pendulum

707
00:51:41,848 --> 00:51:49,668
geopolitically yes of course it's always changing every week there is a country like getting worse

708
00:51:49,668 --> 00:51:54,408
but every day there's also every week there's a country getting better yeah and there's so many

709
00:51:54,408 --> 00:52:00,088
different countries like i said i've been to 326 of this autonomous territories and there's a trend

710
00:52:00,088 --> 00:52:06,048
of rather having new countries a lot of like regions who use also the like new social media

711
00:52:06,048 --> 00:52:11,408
trends to mobilize their people and try to succeed and things like that.

712
00:52:11,408 --> 00:52:17,168
So I think we are rather and I find that a good development to a world with more states

713
00:52:17,168 --> 00:52:22,128
and not like a single centralized super state like the EU or even the UN.

714
00:52:22,128 --> 00:52:26,288
So that would be a very bad dystopian totalitarian development.

715
00:52:26,288 --> 00:52:31,328
I always say I want the world of thousands of Liechtensteins, Andorras, Monaco and so on.

716
00:52:31,888 --> 00:52:34,768
That would make the people living there much more free.

717
00:52:34,768 --> 00:52:44,148
You do see though, like in Europe, you do see large places conspiring, for example, on a tax rate.

718
00:52:44,808 --> 00:52:47,868
What is it? What's the minimum tax rate they're trying to get?

719
00:52:47,868 --> 00:52:49,828
Well, it's basically gone now.

720
00:52:49,948 --> 00:52:55,368
They tried to do this 15%, but only for like very big companies, over 750 million revenue.

721
00:52:56,368 --> 00:53:00,088
And now some countries backed out, even Germany backed out of that agreement.

722
00:53:00,688 --> 00:53:01,668
So it's basically that.

723
00:53:01,668 --> 00:53:07,708
I mean that's a nice thing for us even in the European Union to do anything in terms of taxes

724
00:53:07,708 --> 00:53:12,748
every member state has to agree if there's only one member state we're doing it it doesn't happen

725
00:53:12,748 --> 00:53:19,048
and there's so many tax havens like Malta Cyprus Island Luxembourg and so on that will never come

726
00:53:19,048 --> 00:53:23,548
through and that's a nice development as well can you what do you think are the most attractive

727
00:53:23,548 --> 00:53:30,488
places then like just surface level people that haven't even really thought any of this through

728
00:53:30,488 --> 00:53:36,828
currently what are the i know i'm probably i'm sure you're going to say something like dubai but

729
00:53:36,828 --> 00:53:41,968
is that is that is that one of the most attractive places at the moment i mean dubai is very attractive

730
00:53:41,968 --> 00:53:46,908
not really because of the taxes we are not based in dubai because of the taxes here we are based

731
00:53:46,908 --> 00:53:51,028
there mainly because it's convenient you can travel everywhere in the world very comfortably

732
00:53:51,028 --> 00:53:59,108
very quickly you have a great education system great health system you can basically order

733
00:53:59,108 --> 00:54:03,748
anything at home. Generally when I come to Dubai there's a nurse waiting for me

734
00:54:03,748 --> 00:54:08,948
making a checkup, there's a tailor getting me new clothes, there is everything

735
00:54:08,948 --> 00:54:13,028
coming to your doorstep without even leaving and then the heat that you

736
00:54:13,028 --> 00:54:16,988
especially have in summer is beautiful as well and there's so many friends of

737
00:54:16,988 --> 00:54:21,668
me living there so it's always nice to visit. But of course the desert lifestyle

738
00:54:21,668 --> 00:54:26,228
is not for anyone and people choose to go to other places like popular places

739
00:54:26,228 --> 00:54:29,208
This can be in Latin America, like Costa Rica or Panama.

740
00:54:29,988 --> 00:54:36,008
A lot of people went to Mexico because they had much less restrictions during the pandemic, for example.

741
00:54:36,648 --> 00:54:41,028
Or Asia is very popular, places like Bali and Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines.

742
00:54:41,688 --> 00:54:42,688
There are so many options.

743
00:54:42,808 --> 00:54:46,568
There are still, like I said, 50 options where you can live tax-free as a digital worker.

744
00:54:47,188 --> 00:54:50,148
And that makes it pretty convenient, yeah.

745
00:54:50,148 --> 00:54:51,408
What about Southern Europe?

746
00:54:51,408 --> 00:54:58,568
the uncomfortable, the inconvenient truth for a lot of people is they want to live in a Southern

747
00:54:58,568 --> 00:55:04,128
European environment. It's, you know, like, I guarantee you anyone in Dubai, if you said,

748
00:55:04,588 --> 00:55:07,568
if there was a Dubai in Southern Europe, would you move? And be like, yes.

749
00:55:08,128 --> 00:55:12,788
I mean, most Dubains doing that, right? Most Dubains won't, also those who can afford it,

750
00:55:13,228 --> 00:55:17,608
they don't stay in Dubai during the summer. Every year between like June and October,

751
00:55:17,608 --> 00:55:22,168
those people leave Dubai for like three, four, five months and they are in southern Europe.

752
00:55:22,168 --> 00:55:27,208
But they don't trigger any taxation there. You can have a holiday home, you can stay up to six

753
00:55:27,208 --> 00:55:33,848
months without any issues. And I always say that to my clients as well. You don't need to do the

754
00:55:33,848 --> 00:55:41,688
travel lifestyle I do. I know very, very little people who are in that same passion. You can just

755
00:55:41,688 --> 00:55:46,008
like leave Germany to Mallorca that's like the favorite holiday island in Spain

756
00:55:46,008 --> 00:55:52,068
live there six months, de-register from Germany, still stay in Germany six months

757
00:55:52,068 --> 00:55:57,048
and you're completely out of the system as well. Yeah, by just like flying for

758
00:55:57,048 --> 00:56:01,728
like one and a half hours once a year and back. Yeah, so there's and these options

759
00:56:01,728 --> 00:56:05,388
exist basically for every citizen of the world. Only Americans have a problem

760
00:56:05,388 --> 00:56:09,288
because they're taxed by citizenship but there's also ways to get out of this.

761
00:56:09,288 --> 00:56:14,808
I see now your strategy, your main strategy makes a lot of sense.

762
00:56:15,148 --> 00:56:20,988
I've always thought my mindset is, can I move somewhere and pay hardly any tax?

763
00:56:21,748 --> 00:56:24,588
But your mindset is you can live there.

764
00:56:24,688 --> 00:56:27,028
You just can't spend all year there.

765
00:56:27,028 --> 00:56:31,028
So you have to create a lifestyle for yourself where you work.

766
00:56:31,228 --> 00:56:33,648
You kind of live between the cracks in the system.

767
00:56:33,648 --> 00:56:39,528
I mean, for me, it's not even imaginable to spend more than a couple of weeks or months in a single place.

768
00:56:39,628 --> 00:56:42,188
For most of the world, it's different, I know.

769
00:56:42,788 --> 00:56:46,188
They can't really imagine staying less than half a year in any place.

770
00:56:46,268 --> 00:56:47,448
But still, that's changing.

771
00:56:48,128 --> 00:56:51,788
And those people who are willing to change that have a lot of advantages.

772
00:56:52,168 --> 00:56:55,728
What is it about, why don't you want to stay in a place for a long time then?

773
00:56:56,068 --> 00:56:59,228
I don't really find it beneficial for myself.

774
00:56:59,308 --> 00:57:02,748
I still have this curiosity to explore the world, so many places.

775
00:57:02,748 --> 00:57:03,828
I mean they don't get less

776
00:57:03,828 --> 00:57:04,668
that's the thing

777
00:57:04,668 --> 00:57:06,308
the last couple of years

778
00:57:06,308 --> 00:57:07,628
I had my list to complete

779
00:57:07,628 --> 00:57:10,048
I had these 326 territories

780
00:57:10,048 --> 00:57:11,088
I wanted to visit

781
00:57:11,088 --> 00:57:12,308
and now that's gone

782
00:57:12,308 --> 00:57:15,128
and now the world gets even bigger

783
00:57:15,128 --> 00:57:16,528
and there's so many other new places

784
00:57:16,528 --> 00:57:17,308
there's new hobbies

785
00:57:17,308 --> 00:57:19,128
like I started diving two years ago

786
00:57:19,128 --> 00:57:20,628
and now I want to visit

787
00:57:20,628 --> 00:57:22,588
all those great scuba diving places

788
00:57:22,588 --> 00:57:23,848
very remote islands

789
00:57:23,848 --> 00:57:25,668
where you can only go on a dive level board

790
00:57:25,668 --> 00:57:27,188
so there's

791
00:57:27,188 --> 00:57:28,788
it's never stopping

792
00:57:28,788 --> 00:57:30,528
if you want getting addicted

793
00:57:30,528 --> 00:57:32,508
Have you dived in the Galapagos Islands?

794
00:57:32,748 --> 00:57:35,008
I have a trip coming up next year.

795
00:57:35,368 --> 00:57:38,328
I'll tell you another place I dived, which was phenomenal,

796
00:57:38,728 --> 00:57:40,668
which is hard to get to.

797
00:57:43,208 --> 00:57:47,668
We were making a film about sea gypsies in…

798
00:57:47,668 --> 00:57:49,168
Indonesia, Malaysia.

799
00:57:49,168 --> 00:57:49,808
No, it wasn't.

800
00:57:49,908 --> 00:57:50,268
No, no, no.

801
00:57:50,268 --> 00:57:54,848
It was not Brunei.

802
00:57:55,428 --> 00:57:56,768
Oh, Jesus, my memory.

803
00:57:57,028 --> 00:57:58,328
One of the…

804
00:57:58,328 --> 00:57:59,308
You know Kalimantan.

805
00:57:59,488 --> 00:58:00,368
One of the places…

806
00:58:00,368 --> 00:58:01,308
Yeah, that's Malaysia, Indonesia.

807
00:58:01,428 --> 00:58:02,148
I've been there, actually.

808
00:58:02,148 --> 00:58:03,148
I've been diving there.

809
00:58:03,148 --> 00:58:07,768
It may have been Malaysia, but what's another country around there that isn't Malaysia,

810
00:58:07,768 --> 00:58:08,768
that's part of…

811
00:58:08,768 --> 00:58:10,768
No, Borneo is Indonesia and Malaysia.

812
00:58:10,768 --> 00:58:25,906
Yeah yeah Kalimantan is anyway there an island a very small island there with a massive drop I mean it unbelievable And there is so much life around there but they don let We got permission to film there just randomly

813
00:58:26,346 --> 00:58:27,626
No, no, I met the sea gypsies.

814
00:58:27,686 --> 00:58:28,486
It was very nice.

815
00:58:28,666 --> 00:58:32,386
We actually snorkeled with whale sharks there together with the sea gypsies.

816
00:58:32,506 --> 00:58:33,186
And it's amazing.

817
00:58:33,186 --> 00:58:38,346
They can free breath for 20 minutes or so underwater.

818
00:58:38,786 --> 00:58:40,646
Yeah, yeah, that was part of our film.

819
00:58:41,506 --> 00:58:42,186
We filmed...

820
00:58:42,806 --> 00:58:43,786
I can still remember his name.

821
00:58:43,826 --> 00:58:44,546
His name was Sulbin.

822
00:58:44,546 --> 00:58:51,166
this guy's little wooden glasses little wooden things and he we filmed him in real time diving

823
00:58:51,166 --> 00:58:57,146
down breath diving walking along the bottom of the sea because he he's quite a he was a really

824
00:58:57,146 --> 00:59:02,626
small guy and as soon as he got down below he just stopped he sunk so he he had a spear gun and he

825
00:59:02,626 --> 00:59:06,906
was just walking along the bottom and then he spear gunned this thing at a fish and brought it

826
00:59:06,906 --> 00:59:11,746
up and the whole thing lasted about three or four minutes and he was absolutely fine when he got up

827
00:59:11,746 --> 00:59:13,306
He could have gone on for longer.

828
00:59:13,446 --> 00:59:14,026
It's really incredible.

829
00:59:14,386 --> 00:59:22,126
It's interesting, though, the sea gypsies, because they, you know, I mean, obviously there's a connection with seasteading.

830
00:59:24,106 --> 00:59:25,946
It's a proof of concept in many ways.

831
00:59:26,046 --> 00:59:30,206
And what's interesting about the Bajau that we were with is they didn't have a citizenship.

832
00:59:30,666 --> 00:59:32,126
They actually didn't have a citizenship.

833
00:59:32,306 --> 00:59:38,466
They were living between the Philippines and northern Indonesia around Sulawesi and places like that.

834
00:59:39,146 --> 00:59:40,066
I don't know what.

835
00:59:40,346 --> 00:59:41,246
I mean, this was a while ago.

836
00:59:41,246 --> 00:59:42,786
this was like 10, 15 years ago,

837
00:59:42,846 --> 00:59:46,106
but I think they still don't really have citizenship.

838
00:59:46,366 --> 00:59:47,206
They don't have a passport.

839
00:59:48,026 --> 00:59:50,826
They just kind of like move around, you know.

840
00:59:51,546 --> 00:59:54,246
Yeah, in like certain areas, that's fine.

841
00:59:54,426 --> 00:59:55,986
But generally in the world, of course,

842
00:59:56,066 --> 00:59:57,846
if you don't have a passport,

843
00:59:58,506 --> 00:59:59,966
then you're without much rights.

844
00:59:59,966 --> 01:00:01,726
And that's the idea of Statenlos,

845
01:00:01,786 --> 01:00:03,506
which translates to stateless, yes.

846
01:00:03,866 --> 01:00:05,706
It's not to have no passport at all.

847
01:00:06,206 --> 01:00:07,966
It's rather to have multiple passports

848
01:00:07,966 --> 01:00:09,066
in order to be more flexible.

849
01:00:09,066 --> 01:00:11,306
if one country turns totalitarian.

850
01:00:11,846 --> 01:00:13,406
For example, I have a German passport,

851
01:00:14,026 --> 01:00:15,066
and with what I'm doing,

852
01:00:15,166 --> 01:00:18,106
that's not exactly the interest of the German government,

853
01:00:18,106 --> 01:00:22,826
and they might sanction me by removing my German passport,

854
01:00:23,046 --> 01:00:26,066
and then I'm without travel mobility anymore

855
01:00:26,066 --> 01:00:28,786
and have to go back to Germany, pay taxes, and so on and so on.

856
01:00:28,826 --> 01:00:32,066
So that's the main reason why I got another passport.

857
01:00:32,286 --> 01:00:34,906
I bought the passport of Vanuatu, a little Pacific nation,

858
01:00:35,466 --> 01:00:37,086
in order to be more flexible and free.

859
01:00:37,086 --> 01:00:44,786
the thing about second passports is and correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like it's something

860
01:00:44,786 --> 01:00:51,906
that you need a relatively substantial amount of money to do i mean at least a quarter of a million

861
01:00:51,906 --> 01:00:57,266
dollars or something is that is that true that's changing so like when what was for me it was like

862
01:00:57,266 --> 01:01:03,666
120k so less now there's even programs out there where you can get the passport for like 60k

863
01:01:03,666 --> 01:01:09,266
so there's lots lots more options coming up i mean it's not the best passport but they serve

864
01:01:09,266 --> 01:01:14,046
their purpose of course there's other ways to get a passport just marry the right person

865
01:01:14,046 --> 01:01:21,426
even just like if you want kids go to the right country and have your kids there we have a lot

866
01:01:21,426 --> 01:01:25,666
of clients actually doing that a lot of young families who like go to places like brazil

867
01:01:25,666 --> 01:01:32,126
argentina chile which have very good passports and which gives your child citizenship at birth

868
01:01:32,126 --> 01:01:38,286
directly it's the same in the us and canada and you as a parent get basically directly the right

869
01:01:38,286 --> 01:01:43,806
to stay and after a short time one two years also citizenship so there's other ways if you don't

870
01:01:43,806 --> 01:01:48,006
have money and want a good second citizenship of course you can also live in the country

871
01:01:48,006 --> 01:01:52,806
for long enough and many latin america countries just live there two three years and you also get

872
01:01:52,806 --> 01:01:59,846
a relatively good passport yeah i interviewed fran last year he told me about brazils you can do that

873
01:01:59,846 --> 01:02:01,546
You can have a child in Brazil, can't you?

874
01:02:01,946 --> 01:02:05,106
Yes, you can have a child in Brazil, and then you'll get Brazilian.

875
01:02:05,346 --> 01:02:07,386
And it's a nice passport to have, I think, yeah.

876
01:02:07,426 --> 01:02:08,286
I like Brazil a lot.

877
01:02:08,326 --> 01:02:09,626
It's one of my favorite countries.

878
01:02:09,766 --> 01:02:11,506
What is the best passport currently?

879
01:02:12,206 --> 01:02:14,786
I think in the recent ranking, it was Singapore.

880
01:02:15,706 --> 01:02:18,126
But there's not much difference.

881
01:02:18,366 --> 01:02:22,686
Like, there's like one, two, three more countries you can visit with that passport compared to other ones.

882
01:02:23,106 --> 01:02:26,326
Like, most European ones, like German and UK, are pretty strong still.

883
01:02:26,966 --> 01:02:28,986
But, I mean, that can change over time, yeah.

884
01:02:28,986 --> 01:02:33,666
But generally you see in the world it's getting more free.

885
01:02:33,766 --> 01:02:34,906
It's not getting more restricted.

886
01:02:35,186 --> 01:02:36,846
More and more countries are opening up their borders

887
01:02:36,846 --> 01:02:40,626
because they see they can attract digital nomads,

888
01:02:40,726 --> 01:02:41,906
they can attract investors,

889
01:02:42,066 --> 01:02:43,706
and that's generally a good thing for the country.

890
01:02:44,086 --> 01:02:44,526
Really?

891
01:02:44,906 --> 01:02:48,486
You think the trajectory is positive?

892
01:02:49,126 --> 01:02:49,906
I don't know.

893
01:02:50,246 --> 01:02:53,446
I hear a lot, certainly I see a lot around Europe.

894
01:02:53,646 --> 01:02:55,286
I think of the opposite.

895
01:02:55,426 --> 01:02:56,646
Maybe it's just because I live in the UK

896
01:02:56,646 --> 01:02:58,646
and it appears like they're shutting down the...

897
01:02:59,386 --> 01:03:00,066
They're literally...

898
01:03:00,066 --> 01:03:02,746
They obviously want to punish the Brits

899
01:03:02,746 --> 01:03:04,626
who wanted to exit the European Union,

900
01:03:04,846 --> 01:03:08,066
but generally it's getting easier to travel,

901
01:03:08,246 --> 01:03:09,926
even with a bad passport, yeah.

902
01:03:10,286 --> 01:03:14,646
So even Europe, you think Europe's as a place...

903
01:03:14,646 --> 01:03:16,426
A lot of people are really down on Europe.

904
01:03:17,326 --> 01:03:18,926
It's going in the wrong direction.

905
01:03:20,066 --> 01:03:21,886
Are you more of a positive?

906
01:03:22,066 --> 01:03:23,846
I mean, there's, for example, not citizenships,

907
01:03:23,926 --> 01:03:26,346
but golden visas still in Europe, for example.

908
01:03:26,346 --> 01:03:31,726
in latvia you have to invest like 50 000 in the local company and that gives you unrestricted

909
01:03:31,726 --> 01:03:37,106
mobility in the european union again yeah so there's a lot of like little hacks you can do

910
01:03:37,106 --> 01:03:41,206
which are not that expensive which like restore your mobility yeah

911
01:03:41,206 --> 01:03:52,666
yeah i i wish i could think more about things like that because i have a i probably quite a common

912
01:03:52,666 --> 01:03:59,326
have a scenario that's quite common which is i have a house that i own in a country in europe

913
01:03:59,326 --> 01:04:05,706
well in you know i'm in the i'm in the uk and my family is well embedded in the lifestyle we live

914
01:04:05,706 --> 01:04:12,526
and it's very difficult to change that until the children are a bit older i don't really know how

915
01:04:12,526 --> 01:04:18,166
to do that but i i mean we did it would it would take a very substantial event in the uk

916
01:04:18,166 --> 01:04:22,166
for us to sit down at the kitchen table and go right we got to get out of here

917
01:04:22,166 --> 01:04:24,126
Yeah, I mean, it's always what you want in your life.

918
01:04:24,226 --> 01:04:28,026
And sometimes the social circles are stronger and better.

919
01:04:28,466 --> 01:04:32,466
And you say, oh, it's okay to pay taxes to have this lifestyle.

920
01:04:32,926 --> 01:04:33,826
But it's not okay.

921
01:04:34,206 --> 01:04:36,266
But those things might change, yeah.

922
01:04:36,266 --> 01:04:39,326
And you really have to make up your mind with your family about that.

923
01:04:39,926 --> 01:04:43,166
And a lot of people, a growing amount of families are saying it's not okay.

924
01:04:43,746 --> 01:04:44,566
And we'd rather leave.

925
01:04:44,686 --> 01:04:47,086
But I mean, leaving is not always the only option.

926
01:04:47,286 --> 01:04:50,326
We have a lot of people who want to stay in their home countries as well.

927
01:04:50,326 --> 01:04:57,106
so of course I'm more popular for this like topic of perpetual traveling but we do a lot of tax

928
01:04:57,106 --> 01:05:01,346
optimization for people as well who stay in their home country and there's options yeah

929
01:05:01,346 --> 01:05:07,886
especially you should prevent yourself from certain scenarios yeah like a world war with

930
01:05:07,886 --> 01:05:12,566
Russia for example or things like that by just getting a second bank account outside your home

931
01:05:12,566 --> 01:05:17,566
country getting a residency without living there but just like as a plan b for example

932
01:05:17,566 --> 01:05:23,426
every day we have germans flying to paraguay and getting a residency there because it's so easy

933
01:05:23,426 --> 01:05:27,586
and then they come back to germany live in germany but they have a residency where they

934
01:05:27,586 --> 01:05:32,986
can go to escape to when things turn wrong yeah and then they have like the guarantee that they

935
01:05:32,986 --> 01:05:39,246
can travel to this country and get in and live a peaceful life yeah i've heard that one is you can

936
01:05:39,246 --> 01:05:44,026
you can do it within a day is that right in paraguay probably a couple of days within a week

937
01:05:44,026 --> 01:05:49,606
is fine and you basically don't need any requirements just a couple of documents

938
01:05:49,606 --> 01:05:55,786
translated and epistyled and fly there pay a couple of thousand to a local lawyer and then

939
01:05:55,786 --> 01:06:00,206
you get your residency which is converted to a permanent one after two years and your

940
01:06:00,206 --> 01:06:05,526
hope would be true for your whole family as well yes you can take your wife your kids and so on

941
01:06:05,526 --> 01:06:11,666
and there's a couple of other places in the world so well so when say say something in that scenario

942
01:06:11,666 --> 01:06:14,206
if you get a residency in Paraguay

943
01:06:14,206 --> 01:06:16,186
and then something

944
01:06:16,186 --> 01:06:18,206
happens in your home country, all that means

945
01:06:18,206 --> 01:06:20,246
is that you could go to Paraguay

946
01:06:20,246 --> 01:06:21,406
and stay there indefinitely

947
01:06:21,406 --> 01:06:23,726
it doesn't mean you get any passport

948
01:06:23,726 --> 01:06:25,966
options or anything like that. Not directly

949
01:06:25,966 --> 01:06:28,306
but generally if you live long enough in a country

950
01:06:28,306 --> 01:06:29,546
you have the passport option

951
01:06:29,546 --> 01:06:31,966
so in Paraguay after 3 years of permanent residency

952
01:06:31,966 --> 01:06:34,306
you can get citizenship as well

953
01:06:34,306 --> 01:06:36,146
How many

954
01:06:36,146 --> 01:06:38,006
passports have you got or is that a secret?

955
01:06:38,006 --> 01:06:39,966
No at the moment I have 2 of the

956
01:06:39,984 --> 01:06:46,144
I mentioned German and one or two, but I'm actively on the way to get a couple of more passports.

957
01:06:46,144 --> 01:06:48,824
Are you striking me as the kind of person that would have about 10?

958
01:06:49,264 --> 01:06:51,404
You haven't. How come? I would have thought you...

959
01:06:51,404 --> 01:06:56,924
The main issue is because it was illegal in Germany until very recently to have multiple passports.

960
01:06:57,424 --> 01:07:01,644
So some countries with strict nationality cannot have only the nationality of the country you're born to.

961
01:07:02,264 --> 01:07:03,664
And some countries are more flexible.

962
01:07:04,384 --> 01:07:09,824
And Germany had a single citizenship until last year, 2024, July.

963
01:07:09,984 --> 01:07:15,524
so it's only around like 15 months it's legal to have multiple citizenships so directly after

964
01:07:15,524 --> 01:07:19,504
i was getting to the vanuatu thing and i'm currently working on my third passport

965
01:07:19,504 --> 01:07:26,564
all right we'll wrap up soon but according to you then based on what you know and what you

966
01:07:26,564 --> 01:07:34,324
are generally seeing can you make a kind of loose prediction of what's what's what's going to

967
01:07:34,324 --> 01:07:40,084
transpire over the next sort of 25 years according to the geopolitical stuff do you think you know

968
01:07:40,084 --> 01:07:46,984
are there are there places on the rise places on the decline you know just the general culture of

969
01:07:46,984 --> 01:07:53,044
being able to move around i mean my because you see my one of my thoughts is that we're on a

970
01:07:53,044 --> 01:07:57,604
trajectory and this is technological trajectory as well which is going to make it very easy to

971
01:07:57,604 --> 01:08:03,664
limit people's travel quite quite easily with with algorithms and with social credit scores

972
01:08:03,664 --> 01:08:12,204
Yeah, you have this development of like a digital ID now coming up in Germany and most of the Western world and that can turn very dystopian.

973
01:08:13,544 --> 01:08:17,984
But if you have the right strategies for yourself, it's not that big issue.

974
01:08:18,204 --> 01:08:25,924
For example, that's why I also put this citizenship of Vanuatu because it's a very remote country without much infrastructure.

975
01:08:26,344 --> 01:08:28,424
They cannot have the system in place.

976
01:08:29,084 --> 01:08:32,704
They live like a subsistence lifestyle.

977
01:08:32,704 --> 01:08:37,124
They have their fields, have their fruits, have their pork and their fish, and that will

978
01:08:37,124 --> 01:08:40,644
continue into a long time.

979
01:08:40,644 --> 01:08:46,044
So you have these traditional cultures where you are better off and with the passport of

980
01:08:46,044 --> 01:08:51,944
this country you still have some mobility without the disadvantages you have with digital

981
01:08:51,944 --> 01:08:53,004
ID systems.

982
01:08:53,004 --> 01:08:57,484
So in my eyes we are getting into a much more multipolar world, which is generally a good

983
01:08:57,484 --> 01:09:04,064
thing because there's always a parallel system or different competing parallel systems.

984
01:09:04,064 --> 01:09:07,324
Not all good, but you still have some options.

985
01:09:07,324 --> 01:09:13,344
And in my eyes, I wouldn't recommend to live in most of Asia and Europe and Africa in the

986
01:09:13,344 --> 01:09:14,864
next couple of decades.

987
01:09:14,864 --> 01:09:21,664
I think the safer places to live in the southern hemisphere, especially southern America, also

988
01:09:21,664 --> 01:09:29,824
the Pacific region, I think they will be rather fine without big wars or violence and other

989
01:09:29,824 --> 01:09:33,724
troubles because they're mostly self-sufficient as well.

990
01:09:33,724 --> 01:09:50,232
So generally and that my purpose as well going to those countries My favorite countries are places like Argentina New Zealand and of course Antarctica yeah you can live in Antarctica so so like going back

991
01:09:50,232 --> 01:09:55,632
to the digital ID thing do you say say the digital ID thing becomes as dystopian as people say it

992
01:09:55,632 --> 01:10:02,172
could would you still integrate with that but you would move in and out I think you don't have a

993
01:10:02,172 --> 01:10:09,032
option to not integrate to that because I mean in the in the beginning it would just be an option

994
01:10:09,032 --> 01:10:15,392
but at some point you're completely like out of social life and business life if you don't have it

995
01:10:15,392 --> 01:10:20,832
so you have to like play the game but you should always have like a parallel system in place

996
01:10:20,832 --> 01:10:25,892
where you can opt out of it if you want to or need to yeah just before we go what do you think of

997
01:10:25,892 --> 01:10:30,892
destiny have you have you you know the place in St. Kitts have you have you looked into it do you

998
01:10:30,892 --> 01:10:35,272
know about this not much but we do a lot of business we send kids we do a lot of

999
01:10:35,272 --> 01:10:40,432
foundations and trust there because it's the best use dictionary world for asset

1000
01:10:40,432 --> 01:10:45,232
protection it's basically impossible to like sue you there get your money from

1001
01:10:45,232 --> 01:10:49,792
there so I think destiny I think this is new new special zone there right yes

1002
01:10:49,792 --> 01:10:57,052
we made made holidays and nevis also kids one year ago when it's a nice place

1003
01:10:57,052 --> 01:11:00,532
in the Caribbean much better than many of the other island stays there I was

1004
01:11:00,532 --> 01:11:08,012
just wondering if you had any connection to the project itself and because it's quite well it's a

1005
01:11:08,012 --> 01:11:14,192
it's a huge there's a lot of capital behind it and stuff and you know like you say it's as a place

1006
01:11:14,192 --> 01:11:20,672
nevis and it's an interesting place to do it probably one of the better places to do it in

1007
01:11:20,672 --> 01:11:30,752
fact yeah definitely okay anyway well look thanks christoph um enlightening i wish i could i wish i

1008
01:11:30,752 --> 01:11:36,952
could live i i think actually i probably if i commit the idea to thought i think slowly over

1009
01:11:36,952 --> 01:11:42,312
the next few years it will transpire but it's such a slow process it's always a seed i mean most

1010
01:11:42,312 --> 01:11:47,052
people don't know at all about this world they don't have the perspective at all and then they

1011
01:11:47,052 --> 01:11:53,232
find me online or wherever and they think, oh, yeah, I will never do that.

1012
01:11:53,292 --> 01:11:57,732
But then over time, the seed is planted and it's growing.

1013
01:11:57,792 --> 01:12:03,132
And then there are some events taking place, like the tax authorities coming,

1014
01:12:03,132 --> 01:12:06,172
wanting additional 20, 30 K tax from you.

1015
01:12:06,172 --> 01:12:08,992
And that really says, no, that's enough.

1016
01:12:08,992 --> 01:12:09,932
And now I'm doing it.

1017
01:12:09,992 --> 01:12:15,532
And then they need to convince their wife, their kids, but often they're doing it.

1018
01:12:15,532 --> 01:12:19,792
And when they're then out, then I often see like a kind of healing process.

1019
01:12:19,792 --> 01:12:20,172
Yeah.

1020
01:12:20,492 --> 01:12:23,532
And after a year, they also feel completely free.

1021
01:12:23,532 --> 01:12:26,932
They often come back to me and say, oh, now I have this and this business idea.

1022
01:12:26,932 --> 01:12:29,132
I could never do it back then, but now I can do it.

1023
01:12:29,132 --> 01:12:31,192
Now I have the time and the money to do it.

1024
01:12:31,732 --> 01:12:34,592
And it's generally great to hear that from those people.

1025
01:12:34,592 --> 01:12:34,792
Yeah.

1026
01:12:35,132 --> 01:12:48,480
Which never really looked like they would ever go out of their like traditional lifestyle I think you absolutely right And I think a lot of people stop themselves doing it But you need to make a move to realize

1027
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:50,480
that you were either right or wrong anyway.

1028
01:12:50,780 --> 01:12:54,240
But most people stop at debating doing it.

1029
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:55,760
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of fear.

1030
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,720
There's so many TV shows in Germany,

1031
01:12:57,840 --> 01:12:59,500
but also I think internationally as well,

1032
01:12:59,700 --> 01:13:01,840
where they show like failing immigrants.

1033
01:13:02,820 --> 01:13:04,860
It's funny to watch, but of course,

1034
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,460
it instills fear in a lot of people that they will fail.

1035
01:13:07,460 --> 01:13:09,740
And there's a lot of immigrants failing and coming back.

1036
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:16,180
But generally, it's people who often fail or would fail in their home countries as well.

1037
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:22,680
Talking of TV shows before we go, Jan, you know Jan Bertram from our organization, he told me something.

1038
01:13:23,820 --> 01:13:25,900
He mentioned it on a call the other day.

1039
01:13:25,980 --> 01:13:29,240
He says, when you speak to Christoph, ask him about this.

1040
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,240
And I committed a few things to memory.

1041
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,100
And then I, but it was just a few words.

1042
01:13:35,300 --> 01:13:37,220
And thank, that GPT is amazing.

1043
01:13:37,220 --> 01:13:43,620
I typed in your name, Coca-Cola, T-shirt, German documentary.

1044
01:13:44,300 --> 01:13:46,280
And it searched through all the German results and came up.

1045
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,840
Is this true that back in the day before your company was well known,

1046
01:13:50,020 --> 01:13:58,800
you were on a TV show and got incredibly slated by the show

1047
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,100
because you basically showed everyone that you could live a tax-free life.

1048
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:03,920
And it went viral. Is this right?

1049
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,840
Yeah, it's a German show called Galileo.

1050
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:07,260
That's right.

1051
01:14:07,380 --> 01:14:07,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1052
01:14:08,260 --> 01:14:10,020
And it was like eight years ago.

1053
01:14:10,140 --> 01:14:12,260
It was my second year as a perpetual traveler.

1054
01:14:12,540 --> 01:14:14,840
I had like a vacation with a couple of clients in Panama.

1055
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:16,900
And the film team came there.

1056
01:14:17,100 --> 01:14:20,560
And I mean, I really, even from like my university times,

1057
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:23,020
I know bad press is good press for you.

1058
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,500
Even if they make everything very bad,

1059
01:14:25,900 --> 01:14:28,400
I still probably have more advantages than not.

1060
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,860
And in the end, I think they had like 30 hours of video material

1061
01:14:32,860 --> 01:14:34,280
over a couple of days in Panama.

1062
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,380
and they really got like the 10 worst minutes out of it.

1063
01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:40,520
For example, yeah, they put me in a pool for like three hours.

1064
01:14:40,660 --> 01:14:44,340
I had to stay in that pool and they waited because the pool was cold

1065
01:14:44,340 --> 01:14:45,660
until I started to tremble.

1066
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:50,700
And those couple of seconds I tremble, they put into the documentation.

1067
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:54,540
Or another example, they really wanted to like illustrate me

1068
01:14:54,540 --> 01:15:00,520
like as a homeless person who cannot afford clothes and so on.

1069
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:03,220
So they just said to me, you have to wear always the same.

1070
01:15:03,220 --> 01:15:08,300
yeah also when we were filming different countries in different places you have always to wear the

1071
01:15:08,300 --> 01:15:13,400
same and then they like made it look like it i couldn't afford any clothes or under other than

1072
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:21,100
that i have yeah so i learned a lot about like media and propaganda at this thing but in the end

1073
01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:26,540
it doesn't didn't damage me it gave me a great boost of visibility yeah so yeah i mean and most

1074
01:15:26,540 --> 01:15:32,980
people are not dumb they will see what's really going on all press is good press really so you

1075
01:15:32,980 --> 01:15:34,540
would you would you would advocate for that?

1076
01:15:34,540 --> 01:15:36,880
Yeah, I'm quite using it a lot.

1077
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:54,448
For example this year I went to the famous crypto dinner of Donald Trump in DC And I was one of the only ones giving interviews and i had interviews from like australia and and a lot of big stuff bbc cnn and so on and um yeah um for me that was

1078
01:15:54,448 --> 01:16:00,688
also great visibility boost yeah because i'm just standing there i'm saying yeah um it's nice to to

1079
01:16:00,688 --> 01:16:06,408
see donald trump live he's a charismatic person and um for me it's not a bad thing to do like that

1080
01:16:06,408 --> 01:16:21,788
Well, funnily enough as well, talking of that, before this interview, I was thinking, right, let's, let's, I typed your name into Google and put it onto news, just to see what's happened recently. And it was all stuff from that Donald Trump thing.

1081
01:16:21,788 --> 01:16:23,508
which is interesting.

1082
01:16:23,748 --> 01:16:25,228
I didn't expect that at all.

1083
01:16:25,408 --> 01:16:27,048
I just went there with two friends,

1084
01:16:27,368 --> 01:16:29,648
just a nice time together,

1085
01:16:30,168 --> 01:16:30,908
see him live,

1086
01:16:31,608 --> 01:16:33,188
make some connections to other people

1087
01:16:33,188 --> 01:16:35,148
which are mostly from the crypto world.

1088
01:16:35,668 --> 01:16:37,268
I didn't even consider

1089
01:16:37,268 --> 01:16:39,428
that there was so much media interest.

1090
01:16:39,568 --> 01:16:41,048
I had like a big German newspaper

1091
01:16:41,048 --> 01:16:43,708
coming to me making photo shootings.

1092
01:16:44,008 --> 01:16:45,748
I had a German state television

1093
01:16:45,748 --> 01:16:48,008
making a documentary about me based on that.

1094
01:16:48,808 --> 01:16:50,988
So obviously it has a Donald Trump focus

1095
01:16:50,988 --> 01:16:54,648
but it also makes people aware of what I'm doing.

1096
01:16:54,868 --> 01:16:57,588
And also a number of these organizations,

1097
01:16:57,728 --> 01:16:58,948
they're so lazy, aren't they?

1098
01:16:59,608 --> 01:17:01,008
Modern news organizations.

1099
01:17:01,888 --> 01:17:06,708
You put a picture of the menu of the dinner on Instagram

1100
01:17:06,708 --> 01:17:09,108
and they just will use it as the main picture.

1101
01:17:10,148 --> 01:17:11,948
Yeah, they're all using my material.

1102
01:17:12,208 --> 01:17:12,428
Yeah.

1103
01:17:13,488 --> 01:17:14,208
I don't know.

1104
01:17:14,268 --> 01:17:15,468
I used to work in that world.

1105
01:17:16,068 --> 01:17:19,868
I don't necessarily have much respect for him now.

1106
01:17:19,868 --> 01:17:23,568
But anyway, Christoph, thanks very much for coming in.

1107
01:17:23,828 --> 01:17:25,748
And yeah, thanks for enlightening me again.

1108
01:17:25,828 --> 01:17:30,768
And actually, I really do think, like I was saying, the seed has definitely been planted now.

1109
01:17:30,928 --> 01:17:32,668
I think I was missing something, actually.

1110
01:17:32,748 --> 01:17:43,408
I was missing that I could still live a similar life in the UK to what I'm living now without getting clobbered for so much tax.

1111
01:17:44,088 --> 01:17:45,088
I've missed that one.

1112
01:17:45,088 --> 01:17:49,328
I mean, in many cases, even your wife's children can stay in the UK.

1113
01:17:49,328 --> 01:17:52,288
and if you do it right, you can be out parts of the time

1114
01:17:52,288 --> 01:17:54,508
because you're doing anyway for work, for example,

1115
01:17:54,748 --> 01:17:56,148
and then have some advantages.

1116
01:17:57,588 --> 01:17:59,128
And I mean, that's the nice thing,

1117
01:17:59,288 --> 01:18:00,768
maybe last word about my work.

1118
01:18:00,868 --> 01:18:01,488
It's so diverse.

1119
01:18:01,748 --> 01:18:04,188
I've consulted over 5,000 people now personally

1120
01:18:04,188 --> 01:18:06,148
and no case is like the other.

1121
01:18:06,348 --> 01:18:09,388
It's all very different because we don't sell a product.

1122
01:18:09,888 --> 01:18:12,088
We see all the world and we see the client

1123
01:18:12,088 --> 01:18:15,188
with his individual preferences, dreams, goals,

1124
01:18:15,188 --> 01:18:17,028
and then try to find the best solution.

1125
01:18:17,248 --> 01:18:18,968
And that's a very rewarding work.

1126
01:18:19,328 --> 01:18:24,588
I'm sure it is. Well, good luck for the future. And you've had an effect on me anyway, which is great.

1127
01:18:24,928 --> 01:18:27,848
But thanks for coming in. It's a pleasure talking to you.

1128
01:18:28,308 --> 01:18:28,768
Thank you.