Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast
of the Free Cities Foundation.
Hello and welcome to this episode number 146 of the Free Cities podcast, brought to you as always by our wonderful sponsor Veritas Villages.
Veritas Villages are off-grid, energy-self-sufficient luxury communities in Latin America designed for freedom lovers just like yourself.
And never forget, Bitcoin is accepted at all Veritas Villages, including for the purchase of property.
www.ecovillages.life forward slash free cities for more info.
Everything in the show notes as always.
And if you want to meet these guys in person, well, Patrick Hibbert, the creator of Veritas Villages,
will be speaking at this year's Free Cities Conference in Prague coming up in the next couple of months.
31st of October to the 2nd of November 2025. Get into the show notes for a link to get your tickets
now. That's a wonderful event. Today's guest knows that's a wonderful event. In fact, she was a speaker
at last year's Free Cities Conference. She's also a two-time former guest on this show,
and there's a good reason for that. Her episodes are both in the top section of the most listened
to list for this podcast. Efrat always brings a crowd. Yes, Efrat Fenigsson is an independent
journalist, marketing expert and host. Now, I think that's probably what she's best known as
these days. Host of her own hugely successful podcast, You're the Voice. It's always a joy to
see her. I bumped into her this time in Riga in Latvia. Here's my AI take on the conversation.
Let's see what it made of it.
This is a wide ranging conversation about navigating an increasingly chaotic world.
Efrat and Timothy explore censorship, shadow banning and freedom online and how community and personal branding can help push back.
Efrat highlights Bitcoin and privacy as essential tools for reclaiming sovereignty in the digital age.
They also discuss personal growth and resilience, touching on microdosing, psychedelics, spirituality and life as a digital nomad.
Efrat speaks candidly about Israel, reflecting on propaganda, resistance and her own choice to leave the country and embrace a new way of living.
She stresses the need for hope, creativity and building parallel systems.
And you know how much we love those that allow individuals and communities to thrive beyond centralized control,
blending their personal with the political, the digital with the spiritual and offering a vision of freer futures.
Yes. Amen to that. Nothing much to add myself.
just give it a listen. Everett is here to remind you to stop whinging and get on with the job of
making the world a freer place. And we're all here for that, I know. If you're interested in her other
episodes, I'll leave links to those in the show notes as well. She's done two previous ones. Right,
many thanks to ANTCB, Chris Albanese, Bullish Mike, Matthias, Cousin Vinny, Dovidas, you know who you
are my wonderful new subscribers who are actively supporting the show with their subscriptions on
the fountain app this week they got a bonus episode which was a long conversation with
the wonderful bitcoiner gg if you want some feedback on that from a subscriber bullish mike
says quotes certified banger timothy and gg too much to even highlight and i agree it was an awesome
Convo part two of a four and a half hour conversation with someone who I think is one of the most
exciting thinkers in the Bitcoin space. But I could let you decide that. Please subscribe if
you want to hear that episode, plus the other bonus episodes, getting shout outs, early episodes
and guaranteed readouts of your comments in this intro. They're all benefits of being a subscriber.
Right, I'm out of here. I'm actually off to Serbia in a few hours to revisit Liberland for the Liberpolco gathering.
Hopefully I won't end up with another naughty, naughty stamp in my passport from the Croatian authorities.
Let's see, shall we? OK, Efrat's in the house. Time to pay attention.
You know what? You could even grab your inversion therapy sling and listen to this one hanging upside down, if you like.
Either way, please just sit back, hang out if you want, relax and enjoy my conversation with Efrat Fenixen.
now what i was going to say was yeah um interesting thing and i think you've actually
spoken about this because i did see you mention it on your social media i obviously when we
from our last conversation i've made social media clips right out of what you've said when i post
them to tiktok i know but isn't that funny only yours right they get they get um struck immediately
i've i've been i have then um every single time you know whatever it is complained what do you do
you make a yeah yeah whatever that word is yeah and they all get reinstated 24 hours later and
then get no views. I know. Zero views. Interesting, isn't it? Yeah. You are now, you've been marked.
I know. I am suppressed. I know that. People think I'm just saying it, but I know that it's real.
Even on my Twitter with more than a hundred thousand followers, when I post some stuff that
is a bit, a bit out there, I feel it the next day. I've got like a few likes here and there.
And not that I'm chasing the likes, but it's just you see the anomaly.
You see the difference between a normal day and those kind of days where I hardly get any views on my content.
And that cannot be because my content all of a sudden sucks.
I more or less do the same stuff.
Do you know what, though?
I'm being suppressed.
I have to say, though.
My Facebook is the worst.
Even though you're being suppressed, you're doing bloody well, Efra.
You are.
I'm in awe of your...
That's why I continue doing public speaking.
Because those stages are allowing me to go up there and speak.
So I do that.
And my podcast, no one's going to close my podcast.
And even if Spotify censors me,
even if I cannot upload my episode with Kevin McKernan to YouTube,
it's on Rumble and it's on Substack and it's on Noster
and it's everywhere I can have it.
That's why I'm decentralized.
That's why I'm this hydra.
Okay, push the button and close me here.
I'm still there.
It's like, fuck you.
It's not about the numbers.
My voice has to be out there.
The people that I bring have to be heard.
So I'm going to continue.
No, I just think, I mean, I think it's great.
It's a weird time.
I was talking about you with Jeff just before you came,
that what you've done well is community.
A really important aspect of this whole thing is you've got the kind of aura
that is good for community.
People like you, people want to support you,
people want to get you out there.
And whatever that is, that je ne sais quoi, you've got it and it's brilliant.
And probably, because we talk about this a lot on this podcast about how you defend a physical place.
How do you defend a free city from socialists?
One of them is community.
You want the community backing you because they will defend you against the people that you don't like.
You don't have to go up there and do it yourself.
And those people, especially if they're a state, will look at the community and go, well, hey, actually, maybe we don't want to piss these people off.
So maybe that is your superpower. I don't know.
Because, you know, even though I've been shadow banned so many times, I've never been actually deplatformed, which is an interesting thing.
Because they could have and should have. They have deplatformed other people like me many times.
But I have a suspicion that maybe because of the fact that they know I have such a good engagement On Twitter if you look at my numbers the engagement rates are way higher than normal So people they collaborate with me
They engage with me.
They answer me.
I talk to them.
And the algorithm sees that.
So maybe they have this feature saying, if they're above a certain engagement rate, meaning that they have a strong community, don't take them down.
Just try and get them suppressed.
So they have never taken me down.
They're just like making me silent.
And in a way, if they took you down, it could even be bigger than...
It would backlash on them because then it would make more noise.
And I think this is, spiritually speaking, this is super interesting
because the whole thing is about my voice and them trying to silence me
and the technology helping both of us, helping them suppress me,
helping me reach out to more and more people.
and the thing I'm trying to do now with my little business little modest business just to
further um further stabilize this community you're talking about is to monetize on my community
because I believe that if I create an even stronger bond with those people who want to
support me directly then I really have them as my back you know I've got and I already have that
on Substack with a very small percentage of people that are paying subscribers and they want to
support me no matter what. And once a month I go and I do a live session with them and they love it.
And it's not much, but it's strong. And that kind of brand that you build for yourself,
like that kind of personal brand, personal engagement is a strong weapon in today's day
age what's your describe your demographic then who is it who is it who is it it's mostly boomers
and the number one cluster is boomers men
oh no yes you're an attractive older lady yeah it's like the 50 to 65 i think but then uh but
then no i mean it's between 30 to 65 which is like my strongest audience mostly male but i do have a
lot of females relatively to other podcasters and public speakers because I'm a woman and they can
identify more with me than with men. So I do have about anywhere between 25 to 35% women, which is
quite a bit, because I talk about money and I talk about like manly stuff, but they still follow me.
And the US is number one in terms of countries and then Germany.
I mean, UK first, then Germany, and then many other European countries.
And obviously Israel too, because I'm Israeli.
The Israelis are making a real effort to follow me because it's mostly in English,
but they want to kind of stay updated.
The ones that are based and open-minded, which is not many.
funny enough i i tried to get lots of more women on the show because i end up interviewing a lot
of guys obviously and i did i just did a run of i think six consecutive women now here no no not
here published i it was i did an america trip went all around america interviewed various different
people and it i've still got like three percent women demographic but that's the that and i don't
care. I don't mind that. I get it. You're not that interested. Women aren't going to be necessarily
interested in building free cities and freedom and all that. Well, they are and they will be,
but it's because I think you're a guy. So like women look for other women that are speaking out
because they feel a lot more confident when it comes from someone like them.
But my guests are women though, or is that not enough? No, it has to be the other way around.
Fair enough. But also the more women you will have on your show as guests, the number will grow.
With time.
Will it?
Yeah, yeah, it will.
Just keep doing it.
Keep doing it.
Because then your guests, the women, will share it with their circles.
And yeah, it will grow.
It will just be smaller.
You are by far the most popular woman that's ever been on my show, though.
A hundred percent without a show.
It's not even close, either.
It's a massive increase in women and lots of other things, you know.
Well, I love the discussions with you.
Thanks for having me on again.
talking of discussions then yeah what we're going to talk about let me just tell you one thing which
i find interesting is i looked i i i won't bore you with the facts but i had this absolute
catastrophic problem and i've been fixing that so i didn't actually get time to do much research
because i was doing something else but what i did do is i looked at what your i thought oh let's see
what what you're tweeting about and what you're or what you're nostring about and what you're
speaking about here and weird what you're speaking about here is almost everything i used to be the
kind of you know cbdc bitcoin girl you know who's like but now you're talking about protecting
freedom monetary order the institutional phase of bitcoin building communities it's like yeah
because this is what bitcoin did to me it's like fucking opened my horizons everywhere and the more
I do this and now I'm at number 90 episodes of my podcast and the more people I speak to,
the more I understand that because Bitcoin is money and money is the underlying foundation
for our lives, then Bitcoin is everything. And so my job now is to bring life into Bitcoin
rather than bringing Bitcoin into people's lives. That is going to happen with me or without me.
Now I need to infuse as many topics of life that are interesting to me into Bitcoin so that people are aware of that.
Because they are not aware of the importance of not enough, the mental and spiritual work that they need to do in their lives in order to stay sane in those turbulent years that we're undergoing.
That's one.
they're not very well aware of the global agendas that are happening which you and i both cover
extensively and we know how important it is to connect the thread between you know climate and
health and food and and money etc because that makes you smarter and makes you more prepared
and obviously geoengineering which is huge and now i'm into weather space as well i spoke to
Oh my God, this is like a fucking mind blown.
I did one with Princey, Daniel Prince.
Yeah, Space Weather, sorry.
And it's hilarious.
And he even wore his little red glasses.
Right, right, right.
But I mean, he's playing up a bit as well.
It's kind of like, because I said to him,
are you getting pushback for this?
He said, loads.
Of course.
You know, people are saying, dude,
calm down on the chemtrails and stuff.
It's like not a good look, but he didn't give a...
Oh, no, we don't give a fuck.
We're in the same group of crazy Bitcoiners who are also in chemtrails and geoengineering.
And we do a lot of work around it.
And you see, that's another thing I do.
Well, I don't have a lot of time, but I want to touch on all these things because I feel
they are so critical.
One of the most fascinating topics for me today, which I am still in the, and I'm going
to be forever, the absorption phase rather than the speaking out about it phase is quantum
physics and where it meets reality. So it's like, where spirituality and physics meet? Where is
earth and spirit meet? And what does it look like in life? And so I follow people like Federico
Fagin, he's an Italian quantum physicist, and he's amazing. And I'm reading books and
And, you know, what those, whatever.
It's hard to talk about that stuff, though.
Yes.
I, you know, I did, I don't know whether it's relevant here, but I did have a breakthrough moment in the last few days talking to Max, particularly Max Hillebrand, about property rights.
And it's not going to sound like there's a connection here, but there is.
and basically how you prove unequivocally that property rights,
that property is a naturally occurring thing.
It's easy to think that someone like John Locke created this idea
that if you have something and you add your value,
do you know about the Lockean tradition?
I don't think so.
Most property rights currently legal spiel is based on the theory of John Locke.
he was a 1700s sort of philosopher.
He basically said, if you have a piece of land,
it was about homesteading.
If you have a piece of land, there's nothing.
If you add your labor to it, it becomes your property.
Got it.
Right.
And the US then, that became the homesteading law, 160 acres.
As long as you lived there and you added your labor, you could.
So it was a law.
Plain it as yours.
Now, the temptation is to look at that as a law and go,
okay, that's a man-made law.
But basically, when you analyze Bitcoin,
and this is gonna blow your mind if you get it,
if you look at the Bitcoin network,
where there is nothing, if you add proof of work,
you get property You claim it Right but you don even claim it You get It appears It creates property If the miner does proof of work it creates property And that is indisputable You
can't, that's like two plus two is one. You can't suddenly, it's not a man-made, you discovered
that law of life. Yep. That is beautiful. Right. Now, and you go further, and I won't because
So Max tried to explain it to me and then I ended up looking like a zombie.
But he's a deep thinker.
He is.
He's gone further with various other things.
The conclusion he had was the cypherpunks are so right about so many things and I don't even know it.
And they're so deeply right.
They're so deeply right about what's freedom, for example.
Freedom is right.
Freedom is the right thing.
It's not, you know, you can prove it like you can prove that property exists.
Stuff like that.
And the cypherpunks are the ones.
And that connects beautifully to quantum physics and the quantum reality in which freedom is the natural state of energy in the universe.
Because it's free floating and there is, it's chaotic.
There is no order there.
And things are being pulled from the ether.
And it's just all out there.
and energy flow makes it make sense in a way to us and there and there is so much that we don't
know about how this universe and how reality actually operates and we are full of ourselves
we are so full of hubris thinking that we got it all figured out but we are so far from it and the
more i learn the more i understand the more humble i become to say wow thank you for every day on
this planet in this creation making me part of this huge unbelievable experiment that is actually
working somehow and i hope we're not going to fuck it up but it's i think what's happening to me in
the last couple of years inside my spiritual awakening journey is that my intellectual
ability is kind of expanding maybe it's also to do with the fact that i've been microdosing a lot
mushroom and yeah and and i feel like my capacity to hold more information is growing all the time
even though my age is growing as well even though people say that the older you get the harder it is
and the more i do mental spiritual work and clear out more and more trauma especially ancestral
trauma because i kind of feel like i've done most of the work with my own personal trauma from this
reincarnation. And now I'm kind of looking at other stuff that my grandparents have been carrying,
or my other ancestors have been taking with them, even collective trauma, like the Jewish people
and Israelis and things like that. The more I am deeper into that and able to kind of comprehend
why we take the way we do and why we are carrying all this baggage, unnecessary baggage,
and then inflicting it onto others.
And I am saying in my own little realm,
I'm willing to put that shit aside and move on.
The more intellectual mental capacity I have
to then absorb new stuff and become aware of new things
and the more curious I become.
And then the only problem I have is that I'm still bound
to the time and space laws of this physical realm
and I don't have enough time in the day to absorb more content.
Maybe not.
It's quantum.
Well, yeah, maybe not because then what happens is when I go to sleep at night,
I work double as hard as I do during the day and I remember everything.
I'm fully present in my dream time and I know what I'm doing.
I know where I am, who I'm meeting, what I'm doing.
And my mind even explodes even more when I wake up in the morning
because I wake up and I go, fuck, what just happened?
Where did I just visit?
What did I just do?
and oftentimes the weirdest thing that is happening these days that people tell me in the morning
that i appeared in their dream i dreamed like you were there you did this you did that i'm like
so i'm kind of i don't know time traveling dimensionally traveling during the night i
don't know what i'm doing but something is happening and it's like i've got to ask about
microdosing. I've done my fair share of psychedelics, but I've never done microdosing.
Okay. And also haven't really done anything much in the last sort of probably 15 years.
Tell me about microdosing. How do you do it for starters? How do you get a microdose?
So the people that are making it, thank God they exist, are taking mushrooms, grinding them,
turning them into powder, and then putting them into a capsule. So you can just swallow it like
any other pill okay so it's a it's a mushroom um powder that's what it is are you have you taken
psychedelics and really like properly yeah and so what's the what's the difference like
is there any of that the difference is very evident yeah sure well when you do a mushroom
trip or any other psychedelic trip then you know you're out cold you're out there you're doing your
own thing and probably in a different dimension different realm and yes your consciousness truly
expands and you see visions and other things etc but when you microdose you're not going there
it's not tripping it's you're you're still here in the bound to the laws of the third dimension
time and space and you are the only thing that maybe changes is your frequency gets higher so
So you may be on, instead of being on the third, fourth dimension, you may be experiencing the fifth dimension just in terms of frequency, but you're still here.
So your frequency goes up. It means that your senses may be more tuned.
Your cognitive ability will sharpen.
You will have more lucid dreams, which is what I've been describing.
you may be more relaxed because the emotions and feelings that we are experiencing in the third
dimensions are very polarized you know how we we're attuned to have chemical reactions in our
bodies that will trigger certain emotions and feelings and it will start with the emotions
which will oftentimes be very polarized meaning now I'm upset now I'm sad now I'm happy now I'm
bored, you know, and all these things will be experienced to a very large degree, in a very
real way. Like we will experience them as if they are controlling our body, they are controlling
our sensations, they become feelings after they are emotions. And when you're microdosing, what I
felt, and I don't know if everyone feels that, but my experience was that the emotions are a little
bit more calm down. It's like, it's not as intense. It's not as dramatic. That's the right way of
saying it. Like it can still be, obviously you still feel it. It's not like you're taking an
antidepressant and you completely suppress that emotional mechanism. It's there for you to
experience, but you're more observing it and you're less into it being very dramatic about it.
So it's like, oh, okay, now this has happened.
Everything kind of slows down.
You can take it with a little bit less drama, which is always great for a human because we're very dramatic.
And how often do you do it?
So I've been, I don't do it all the time.
Normally when I do it, it's for a series of about anywhere between like five to six weeks long.
And then there's a protocol of how you take it.
So you may take it once a day and then, sorry, two days and then one day break, two days,
one day break.
That's one protocol, I think.
Don't quote me.
The other protocol I did is like four days and then three days break, four days, three
days break.
And the reason why you want to do those intervals is because you want to let your body kind
of integrate that experience from when you're taking it and also want to be able to compare
how you are with it and without it.
and you want to do this for a long period of time.
And you're not supposed to have any interruption to your daily routine.
Like if what you do is write and read and talk to people,
you're supposed to be doing that just the same, even better.
So the first time I took it, I felt like I could read, I could write,
but then, sorry, I could read, I could listen.
It was very hard for me to write.
And then I said, that's too much of a dose for me.
So I lowered the dose because it's micro dosing.
It's really, really low, but my body is very sensitive and you have to listen to your body
and know how much it takes.
So I took less than that.
So, so yeah, I don't eat much.
You've done some podcasts during that time.
Oh, for sure.
I've done everything.
Right.
Everything.
And it's in describe the difference then, like you are more acute.
I told you I think the bottom line is I just have a very strong intellectual capacity with it And does it stay Yeah Well did I become dumber after I not taking microdosing now for the past But you always seemed pretty
Four or five months.
...to me, you know?
Yes, I'm not a stupid person, but I...
I...
It's been...
I've taken it three times over the last, let's say, year and a half
for a period of about six weeks every time.
So it's not like I'm doing this every day, all day.
I haven't taken any the past four or five months.
And I feel like that effect stays.
Because this is the thing with psychedelics, which you can probably identify with because you've done it,
is that once that key unlocks something in your consciousness, it normally doesn't go back to be the way it was before.
Yeah, I think.
So it's a little bit like that.
The reason I do, my whole life trajectory has been because I did psychedelics when I was about 16, I think.
Right.
I don't think, when I look at my peer group, my friend group, where I grew up, I went off, I was the one that didn't go and get a job in the city of London and do this and blah, blah, blah.
And I think, in my case, it was very visceral.
The first time I did it, I was different.
From that point onwards, at 16, I can remember it.
It's like the first time you see, if you do a proper dose of, say, mushrooms, which I think we were doing acid probably, but whatever.
And you notice something about yourself that you didn't notice before.
Yeah.
You can never forget that.
It's always there from that point onwards.
Right.
And it's like that, you know, and depending on what happens to you.
I mean, there's lots of different types.
Mushrooms for me were always something I did for fun.
Actually, a couple of times in Thailand, we did it ceremonially.
and fasted with it and stuff like that.
But really it was something that was part of a funny night out or something.
Right.
But it was other ones that I took seriously.
Right.
And used them as ways to discover myself.
Absolutely.
But not for a long time though.
And I think now I feel…
Look, we have the habit of going back to our old ways.
Yeah, but mine's quite simple.
I feel that I, have you ever had a bad trip?
I don't think I did.
I had a really hard time on my first night of ayahuasca,
but I don't call that a bad trip.
I think it's part of the game.
Did you ever have that experience where you thought,
I want this to stop, it can't stop, oh my God, I'm spiraling in, you know.
Yeah, I think during my ayahuasca it was like that.
And I was like, fuck, this is hard.
This is tough.
And it's not stopping.
And I'm going crazy.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Maybe it sounds like you were pretty cool with it.
And I think I predict probably I would be pretty cool with it.
But I have noticed that the pressures of modern life sometimes show me the beginning of that same journey, if you see what I mean.
So I one time, I don't know, six years ago, I had a very important speaking engagement.
And there was a lot of people there.
it was over a thousand people standing in front of me.
And I got up on stage ready to go.
And I'd had malaria previously.
And I'd been in hospital on a drip.
So I was exhausted.
I was knackered.
I got up on stage and I was standing there.
And suddenly I knew nothing.
I didn't even know what I was looking at and something.
And I went and I felt, I can feel it now.
I can bring it up.
I felt, oh my God, what the hell?
These people are looking at me.
I don't know who I am, what I'm doing, what I'm doing.
And the only thing I could do is I said, fortunately, because I just had malaria and I had literally just been in the hospital.
I said, sorry, guys, I'm just going to go off stage and have a glass of water because I and I told the story of having malaria.
And I walked off.
Yes.
And I went to the thing.
I put water over myself and I came back and I was fine.
But the point was, that's the beginning of a bad trip on acid that you can't stop.
I just managed to stop it at that point.
I could feel it.
It's like, I am in a situation which I don't want to be in.
I'm trying to get out and I can't.
And I've followed that in a psychedelic experience to the point where there was a single thread
connecting me to all that is.
Nothing else.
So, and outside of that thread was complete despair, which is the bottom of the spiritual
bucket or whatever you want to call it.
It's like, have you ever felt despair about something?
Yes.
Right, now imagine the most extreme form of despair you can,
which in my case came from being disconnected
from everything that was.
And in that one trip, there was literally a thread
that was infinitely small connecting me to everything that is.
And the despair was really there.
And it was ready to engulf me.
And that's like, I worry about going back there.
I really do. Because, you know, at that point, that was many years ago, that was like, I was in my 30s, maybe.
That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
But it's a scary place to be.
I understand.
Because in the despair is you living in a mental asylum. I really do think so. Or at least that's what was stopping.
I live with the birds of people, yeah.
Well, yeah, but maybe for me. And I've got kids and a family. I don't want to go there.
I understand.
But I do want to explore. I'd love to be doing.
Microdosing will be the easiest thing you've ever done in your life because you've done psychedelics.
But no, I'm talking about even when you mention ayahuasca, you know, I'd love to do.
Yeah, but the spectrum of ayahuasca and microdosing, right?
Yeah, but there's so much to see.
It's like I'm a traveler, I'm an explorer, I'm an inquisitive person.
Yeah.
That world is there for the taking if you choose to.
It is, but you need to trust that you can do it.
You need to trust yourself.
You need to trust that you'll be strong enough to hold everything.
And yes, while you were talking, I remembered that I did have one time where I was on something.
And then I felt like, ooh, spinning up.
I'm about to lose it.
And I had to lie down and breathe and get myself out of it.
And that then reminded me of how I used to faint.
and I have fainted quite a few times during my life and and it's funny because when you say
fainting people attribute it only to a physical thing you faint it's like something happens to
your body you blank out and then you come back and it's like a physical thing but I believe and
I have no proof of it and I would love to research more about it that would probably go into the list
there that you've done about fainting because I believe that maybe fainting has also a spiritual
aspect to it and there is something spiritual or mental telling you that place that you have
described. You have reached that place right now. You don't want to be here or you don't need to be
here. We are going to pull you out for a second from that consciousness so that you can reset
everything we will take care of you we will guide you I don't know who we is right we will guide you
you'll be guarded trusted loved protected and then you'll be back because every time I had fainted
and it started when I was 16 I had a an experience of going outside of my body and the the return back
was the only thing that I can remember that I was out of it.
Because while I'm out of it, I can't remember anything.
But then there's this split second,
and it may just be it's split second in linear terms.
Who knows how long it is in quantum terms,
but it feels like if I have to stretch it,
it feels like I'm returning from somewhere, sometime back here.
like a little bit like in those movies where you see like you're returning back to where you are
and then you open it and it's like fuck where am i what just happened and it's all black and weird
and then there's these people and so the sensation during fainting i believe extends further than
just a physical sensation i think there is something more to it something spiritual and
that we're experiencing.
It's funny, if you'd have been born in India or Nepal,
you might at this point be surrounded
by people throwing flowers at you and stuff.
Because I'm sure I know instances of this.
Children who had this experience
who then become vilified in a good way.
Because this is a spiritual experience.
You know, a 14 or a 16 year old girl keeps fainting.
Yeah.
And then starts talking in tongues afterwards
and then starts doing this and starts doing that.
I'm sure I've come across a few origin stories.
Dude, you have to send some material about it.
No, but I think particularly in Nepal,
I think there are some Nepalese, very young,
very young, not bodies at first,
but you know, like enlightened people who,
not that I'm saying you're necessarily enlightened, don't you?
it go to your head don't worry don't worry i spoke about humbleness don't worry but but it is one of
those things you know did you know i want to i want to come did you come back from that stuff
and have any new insights or is that you were too young thinking about it then
i think i was too young it makes sense i think i was too young but the last time i fainted
was three years ago, before the ayahuasca ceremony,
we were doing kambok.
Do you know what that is?
Is that the intense one, the DMT?
It's the frog thing?
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Back of the frog.
Is it the frog or is it the snake venom thing?
I'm sorry.
How long did it last?
That's a good way to work it out.
A few minutes.
Yeah, that's the DMT one that basically projects you
straight into oblivion and then you come back quite quickly right so that you did they do the
three for guys they do the three dots here for me it was on my leg but they did it and it was so
painful that i slowly started feeling like i'm losing it and i'm gonna faint i knew i'm gonna
faint i always know i'm going to faint so i sat down waiting for it to happen and then i blacked
out and they told me later that it was about a minute and a half to two minutes that i was out
and they did not touch me. They did not try to move me or put water on me. They did nothing but
hold the space around me, the shaman and the other guys that were there. And then when I got back,
I was like, I fainted, right? I told them and they were like, yes. I said, okay, but I'm okay.
And then I think what it did, because you're asking if I ever had an incident in which I
came back and felt something has changed. Something has changed. And I think it cleared out some of my
despair or hopelessness about humanity or about the world. Because I went into this whole journey,
whole experience with the question of, why do I even need to be here? Because if I have already
understood that I am a soul in a human body. I am an eternal soul. I'm always going to be here.
And I am contributing to this thing, to humanity, whether I am here or not here.
And all this evil stuff is happening and people are doing all these horrible things,
especially to children, which was killing me at the time.
why why do I really need to stay why can I not just go and it wouldn't make a difference and I
was really despaired and that thing kind of it brought me back not with a new understanding or
with a new cognitive thought but with a clear body I think to kind of restart something and
revisit, re-look at life again. And then later on when I did the ayahuasca, it showed me stuff.
And I think I was kind of clear and ready to accept. So when you fainted, does that mean you
don't recall the experience at all of taking the drug? I mean, of the effects of the drug,
you don't even, you didn't experience that. You just know you brought something back.
Because normally when people take that. When I faint, I am out. I'm not here. It's as if I'm dead.
Right. But you didn't come back during the trip because it lasts about seven or eight minutes, right?
Oh, I came back and I was still in it. But the problem is when you faint physically, you feel like a truck just hit you.
So you feel really, really heavy, super heavy. And everything is very condensed and contracted.
so I don't know if I had experience maybe that's what combo feels like I don't know
but that's what I thought you know Yoni Appleberg yes yes I know he did the same thing and he'll
tell you that that gave him a phenomenal experience I've got in fact I interviewed him
I interviewed him three days ago and we spoke about it so I'm gonna listen to it I'll point
you in the direction absolutely he really has come back a different person oh wow he did the
for ayahuasca, then, you know, I forget.
Okay, all of them.
But anyway, what have you got your computer open for?
Yeah, I've got, yeah, stuff to talk to you about.
I mean, some thoughts I've been having around privacy.
And also, I don't know if you wanted to touch on
what I talked about at the conference
was the musical chairs of monetary order.
Which doesn't explain a lot in the title.
The musical chairs of monetary order.
Who said it needs to explain?
No, because then I could work out what you're about to talk about.
Well, you can just watch it.
Well, start where you want.
Privacy is obviously a very important part of what we talk about on this podcast.
And privacy is inherently necessary for freedom as far as I'm concerned.
Right.
So I've been having thoughts about privacy lately because it's one of the reasons why I'm in Bitcoin.
It's one of the reasons why I care about human rights so much.
and I feel like the more work I do, the more content I create, the more conversations people
like us have, the more privacy becomes a forbidden concept. It becomes something we talk about that
gradually is leaving the allowed sandbox and it's wild because it's privacy. It's not like we're
talking about chemtrails or geoengineering, right? We're talking about privacy and why is it becoming
such a dirty thing to talk about. Why is the concept of you sharing something confidentially
with someone else or just with yourself is so controversial? Why are they normalizing the whole
concept of no privacy? Why when you tell a normie, I want privacy, they tell you, what do you have to
hide? So hold on, dude, did you forget the importance of having a door in the bathroom
when you go in? Did you forget why you're writing a journal to yourself? Did you forget why you're
telling someone a secret? This is all around privacy. All these things that we are taking
for granted in our lives are ingrained in the principle of privacy. And now when all these
wacky states are deciding to put all these laws onto us, which is something we've talked about in
our previous interview where we talked about the Agenda 2030 and the crackdown on information,
crackdown on freedom of speech and all that stuff. This is all part of the agenda. And now we're on
to that stage where the laws are actually being enacted and you can't even say what you want to
say on social media or you have to identify your age or who you are. And so if you look at, you
know that always makes me go back to the documentation and show everyone that they are actually um
violating their own rules or wards and if you go back to 1948 and the universal declaration of human
rights signed at the united nations by most of the countries that are my daughter again she always
decide i thought i'd turn this off sorry it's okay um there you go go sorry alex i love you
so most of the countries have signed it because it just made sense to them after the second world
war to show that they are um humane and and that they respect us and one of the things written
there in article 12 is no one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy family
home or correspondence sounds good sounds pretty good and i've i've stolen that from kali
that have done a whole presentation about privacy now at the Baltic Honey Badger conference.
And it's a beautiful presentation that he has done.
And he's developing freedom tools on Bitcoin, Cashew, for example.
And when we use Bitcoin, governments can't stop transactions.
And that's something that is pretty...
I mean, everyone knows that.
Every Bitcoiner knows that.
Most normies don't know that.
And that's why they're so afraid of Bitcoin, because they think that it can be co-opted, it can be hijacked, it can be controlled.
Yes, it has its challenges and shortcomings, but it is very hard to stop transactions once they have occurred on the blockchain.
And in order for you to stop something that has now been put onto the blockchain, you have to work really hard to try and stop that.
It's like almost impossible to take it back because once the nodes have validated it and there is another block on top of it and another block and another block, it becomes impossible to take down that tower that has been built on top of it.
And in any other form of money today the ability to stop you is so simple and it gets easier by the day especially with CBDCs soon coming into our lives And so if you only compare those two things the fact that with Bitcoin you can really stop and
with any other form of money, you have to make a big effort, then it already gives Bitcoin a big
advantage because the fact that this is your own private business, you decided to do it,
you don't need permission, you launched it out there, people don't have to know who it went to,
it is private in that sense, unless you are identified with a KYC, blah, blah, blah.
Still, it's going to take a huge amount of effort for whoever wants to stop you to stop you,
and it's going to take a big amount of effort to know who you sent it to and why, etc. Whereas in
today's world fiat world those things are super easy so the whole paradigm shift of preserving
some kind of power sovereignty and privacy in on the blockchain on the bitcoin blockchain is
super easy to understand and the whole the whole paradigm shift of you are guilty till proven
innocent that is today's normal life instead of you are innocent until proven guilty is something
that we have to stop and think about because this is happening and we're not paying attention
for that happening. The other thing is once you start using Bitcoin, start using the blockchain,
it shifts once again more power to you because you can then launch transactions in a permissionless
way. And for them to stop you, they have to put a lot of effort. And so you're giving them the
hard work rather than, you know, you have the easy work. You just have to do it. They now have
to do a lot of stuff to try and stop you. Even if they arrest you and try to confiscate and threaten
you and coerce you to give them your seed, all that takes a huge amount of effort that they have
to do. It's on their side. And as the saying goes, they cannot arrest us all. They cannot enforce
this on all of us. This is going to be super hard to do on the Bitcoin standard. The other thing is,
if you look in the physical analog age, it used to be that privacy was expensive to violate. You
had to go spy over someone. You had to intrude their privacy in order to spy on them. You had
to install some equipment. In the digital age, it becomes so much easier and faster to violate your
privacy. There are technologies to do that, and they are becoming more sophisticated and more
cheap as we go. AI is now spying on everything, on everyone all the time. So violating your privacy
in a digital age is super easy. Now, encryption, when you encrypt your communication or you're
encrypting your transactions, your financial transaction, you are reintroducing the equivalence
of doors and walls and curtains in a digital world. So you're putting back again another layer,
another buffer there between you and anyone else that wants to violate your privacy. And that alone
is, and I'm not even talking about those wonderful privacy tools that all these great hackers and
devs are developing. I'm talking about just the simple fact of you using an app like Signal to
communicate or you using Bitcoin to transfer money or even Lightning that is even more private than
the blockchain, than on-chain transactions and obviously cashew etc etc. So it's just
it's really easy to reclaim back sovereignty and privacy just by virtue of using those tools
today. And so, yeah, basically, I mean, those were the two points I wanted to make about privacy.
I think we are trying to go, I mean, not trying, but sometimes we go very far to how can we
reinstate privacy and sovereignty in the digital age. And it starts with very simple things,
as in introduce encryption back into your life, your digital life.
And you've already created those curtains and doors and windows
that are there to protect you.
I agree with you.
I mean, I would say the arc of understanding that I've been on
over the last few years has always been about that.
I just didn't know it at the start.
It's the end point.
And I mean, every single person I've interviewed here
has talked about that in a different way.
or in a from either a very simple these are the tools to use way or from the ideas behind it and
why either why privacy is important and why privacy why the bad guys let's call them are
trying to remove it which is very fascinating because what that's you'll be pleased to know
that is my daughter contacting me on signal but it's done it again i've just turned off my phone
and it's still working there's maybe she's got really something important to tell you maybe she
hasn't she hasn't she um she basically is sending me videos of her riding her horse almost certainly
that is reading print pretty important yeah but it's not because they're like well no it is
and here's an interesting while we're on the subject because last night my wife's here but
she's out in a sauna at the moment and we always get videos when we're away my daughter set up a
her phone on inside the field ship you know a field a horse field shelter it's like a place
where the horse's shelter out on the field and videoed herself for about 35 minutes basically
riding around and around tacking up putting the stuff on the horse and me and my wife we were
lying in bed last night watching it like this and i really and i said to her i'd never do this in
real life like sometimes i do sit at the top of the field and watch her ride but i would never
watch her so much as soon as i'm looking through a screen i'm like mesmerized by this and she went
off the screen for a while and we were both like hanging on the and then she popped back in again
like right in the distance and we were laughing about it that how interesting it is that you watch
intensely when it's over there and it's on the screen but in real life it's boring sometimes you
know i don't know what that well it has to do with the blue light coming out of the screen too
It is pushing you, pulling you, sorry, to stay alert to it.
It's messing up with our brain.
Okay.
Fortunately, I spoke to Princey all about that for ages.
Going back to they, them, the people we all know, they don't want you to have privacy.
Right.
Have you ever, I mean, I've got my own answers to this, but what do you think is that?
What's driving this requirement of a certain group of the world trying to normalize?
In my case, I think one of the ways they're using is guilt over privacy, like you said.
But why is that happening?
Because I grew up in a private world.
First time I ever used Facebook, I was telling someone earlier today, it was weird.
I was like, oh, this is really intense.
It's like, what am I telling everyone?
It's all connected to, everything is connected to everything.
So I think that it's happening because the end goal is to have full control over humanity.
In someone's sick brain, in someone's dystopian sick brain, they actually think that this is possible.
Naturally, if you're looking at nature, it is not possible.
They will never be able to control everyone, everything.
how the universe works. But they think that some crazy, tiny percentage of those psychopathic,
you know, elite class that is up there thinking that they're smarter than us,
making decisions for us on how we're going to live our lives, they are pretty convinced that
they can control everyone. And the reason they need to control it is because of the underlying
fabric of humanity, which is fiat, they need to create some kind of structure and order
to the world that they'll be able to manipulate and navigate in a way that they think is right.
Now, I think that they believe in eugenics and that they want to kind of rearrange the number of
souls on this planet and where those souls are organized and how and to which extent
those souls are operating in a way that is complying with how they think that we should be behaving and complying.
And so it all interwoven but basically they need a metrics system that will create a certain structure a certain order And in order to make that work they need to control how we are behaving in our lives how we are communicating
And if we are communicating secretively and confidentially, and they don't know what we
think about and what we organize without them, then they don't have control over it. So they
have to make everything visible. They have to make everything exposed so they can be aware of it,
so that they can control it. And if they can control it, then they can influence what kind
of narratives, what kind of thoughts the collective has. Just like Bernays said when was it the
beginning of the 1900s with his book Propaganda, we know better than these people. We have to
control how they think. So we are going to dictate some narratives and those narratives
will help us organize society. That's what they need to organize society in a certain way.
And they need to maybe on the way depopulate a little bit because we're now too big,
too many of us, and some of us are also not functioning very well. Too many of us are waking
up and we cannot be controlled. So because we're waking up, we need to also be suppressed,
silenced, you know, maybe push us out of this smart city into the rural area where we'll make
less problems for them. Like there is a lot of stuff that is happening and they are trying to
juggle a million balls in the air because it is chaotic. It's becoming more and more chaotic
because the attempt to control society, humanity, human lives, the natural force of life is
inherently insane. It is impossible to control nature. And they are trying to control nature.
And what I do in my presentations, in my public speaking, is just try to show what they're doing.
because I believe that by me putting all those receipts out there,
showing those short video clips of them talking their nonsense plans
and of them trying to control the way we behave
and what we do with our money and what we do with our speech
is just so ridiculous.
Then even a normie seeing that going,
oh, that's a little bit too much, isn't it?
They go a little bit too far.
They're self-sabotaging.
You don't live in the UK.
You'd be surprised.
I know that many people don't see it.
I know.
Speaking of the UK.
But I know.
But the thing is, this is my role.
I need to do this and put it out there so that the ones that are primed to pay attention will pay attention.
And I know it's not everyone.
It's undeniable now that you just need to take a look at the UK.
Something you spoke about a long time ago, and some people have been speaking about since the 80s,
since the internet was even really a thing is a time will come when you will have no privacy on
the internet yeah that time is pretty much here yeah we're living it's here i saw on the bbc
even news this morning that wikipedia is now battling the courts in the uk to not be classed
as a website that you need to show your credit card to get onto right and obviously this is
another step in this in this stage it is three years ago two years ago i've read the suggestion
of the bill that that was being written at the time by the democracy institute in israel they're
so democratic about regulating the internet and that suggestion to like that that advice that they
gave to the regulator was the same kind of advice that any regulator around the world was given by
an expert in democracy and free speech. And basically, they were categorizing websites
according to size, built on traffic and engagement rates and different types of metrics. And they
were saying the ones that are the largest, like the biggest platforms, social media platforms,
Wikipedia type of websites, they're the ones that have to be regulated fully. And then the second
tier will be semi-regulated. And then the smallest ones, we're not going to bother with them because
it's going to be too much of an overhead to try and enforce anything on them. So the moment you
get big, you are in their net. They have to enforce and regulate you. It's about size.
And the reason why it's like that is because they know that that's where we go, that's where we opt
out. We as in the minority that understand what's going on and is in tuned with this,
is opting out and using other tools like Noster, etc. But most of society, the numbers are there,
they are flocking into the mainstream, large websites, and that's where they want to capture
them. And that's what they want to control. So it's no coincidence that they would not bother
with a Noster or with any other. I mean, Noster is a protocol, so they can't. But you know what I
mean, they will not bother with the small ones. So and they know what they're doing. They're
designing it for a reason in that way and today with ai everything is automated and it's becoming
even easier to control and to just do that automatically they don't even need anyone to
actually look at websites and decide which is a big one or a small one everything is automated
yeah but that's the that's the thing i worry about because that is a new part of the equation ai
will trend all that stuff to zero in cheat in cost pretty much yeah so i mean it's a it's a
big thing to think about i mean it really is that that ai will be the thing that that encaptures you
in the end because and it will also be the thing that will save you if you decide to use it to
develop freedom tech go on then yeah i mean i'm not the one to talk about you had all these smart
guys here i know but all right you know white noise they are developing private uh private
messaging on top of Noster. It's a tough cookie to crack, but they're trying to do it. And if we
have that on a completely decentralized protocol that cannot be stopped and you can have private
messaging on it, game over. Beautiful. Well, in one sense. I mean, game over. If they have good
marketing, it's game over. No, but I mean, this is what I worry about. And you can see this already
in Bitcoin. You can see this potentially in all the other things that we're talking about.
is if you're privacy conscious, that's great.
But if you're in a minority of privacy conscious people,
you're not private because you stand out like a sore thumb.
You're the person not being private.
You're the person, sorry, being private.
So people can see you.
What do you mean people can see you?
If you're being private, they can see you?
Yeah, if you are like...
Or if you're calling out to be private.
No, no, if you're actually being private.
I'll give you an example.
A VPN makes you private.
You can detect a VPN.
If everyone uses a VPN in the world, it's great.
But if only the private people use it, 20%, 10%, right, here we are.
Let's attack that 20% of people, right?
Problem number one is you stand out if you're looking for privacy.
Problem number two, something like Bitcoin.
Sure, Bitcoin, I can spend Bitcoin with you.
Nothing you can do about it.
But what can I buy with Bitcoin without giving away my details?
Can I buy a car?
Yeah, I'd have to find someone that wanted to sell me a car.
If you were in a country where they wanted to sell me a car,
did they have to declare, who's the new owner?
How did they pay me?
There will always be things that you will not be able to consume
or purchase without identifying yourself.
But you can always convert peer-to-peer to the local fiat currency and use it.
Yes, but when you do that, you're identifying yourself.
Not necessarily. If you're doing it peer-to-peer, you don't have to be.
Okay, but there's a law. Efrat, be realistic, right?
There's a law that everything you do has to be KYC'd.
There's a law in your country that states that if you want to drive a car, you need a license.
If you want the license, you have to do this.
In the case of a car, as I said, you'll have to comply if that's what you want.
If you want a car in that country, you'll have to comply.
house yeah so you'll have to comply right or you move to another country that doesn't ask you to do
that dude i can't change reality this is reality but the question is what are you going to do about
it that's what i told you before that's the point where i feel like people misunderstand
what we're here to do life is going to be full of intersections like this from that from this
moment onwards for the next at least five years, at least maybe even a decade or two.
Those intersections in which you stand and you go, oh, I'm fucked. This is how I have to operate if I
want to live a normal life or a life that is less risky or a life that is more normal like everyone else And if I want to do what I want to do I have to take a bigger risk or I have to not comply
or I have to think outside the box or I have to be very creative and go actively look for
solutions that are not offered to me on a regular basis.
You are going to find those situations more and more.
The question is not how do I deal with the situations?
The question is how do I spend my time effectively right now to go and educate myself on what exists so that I can be prepared for the next five to 10 years with the best solutions at hand?
And people don't do that.
Instead, they stop here and they go, oh, I'm fucked and Bitcoin is hijacked.
It's like, come on.
There is always a way.
The question is how much are you willing to educate yourself?
And how much are you willing to take a risk or compromise, compromise ease and convenience
and, you know, and normality in order to be a little bit different or to have different
kinds of conversations with people?
We are pushed to the corner right now and we have to rediscover how we find solutions
in a pretty tricky time.
That's the time we're in.
Tough luck.
Now what?
Do you want to bitch about it?
Do you want to take a black pill or do you want to find some solutions?
Deal with it.
Yes, CBDCs are coming.
Yes, Tether may be helping some bad things to happen, but they're also doing some good things.
Yes, it's all correct.
Now what?
Where do you go?
I think I love what you're saying, of course.
I find, though, and I always want to, I want other people to know what you've just said.
but i think when you track back to the heart of what you're talking about you basically is the
realization that the state is the enemy yeah right but that is a long way to go for most people
long way especially in my country maybe in a country where you're feeling where you're bumping
up against the state in my country too right that's a big that's a big ask of people because
it's such a fundamentally held belief that this is how society works.
I'm not asking that of everyone.
As I said, I'm putting my stuff out there.
The ones that are primed will pick it up.
We will be on the same wavelength and frequency in our radio stations
and they will pick it up.
The ones that cannot hear me, the ones that I trigger,
the ones that hate me, the ones that write all these horrible comments to me
on my whatever YouTube channel or Twitter. It's like, be my guest. I'm so used to that shit and
I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm not talking to you. If you're triggered by what I say,
if I rug pull you because you hold a worldview that is so reliant on your national identity or
political identity or religious identity or whatever other type of identity that you have,
then I'm sorry you don't have a strong enough center to believe in who you are in yourself and
trust that you are an eternal soul and you're protected and loved by the universe and you are
here and you're going to fulfill on your mission here you are being shaken by what I'm saying
that's your problem it's fine we don't have to talk you can take your thing and do it elsewhere
and go open the mainstream tv or radio and listen to them instead don't listen to me I'm not for you
I'm not for everyone. I understand that. I acknowledge that and that's okay. But I am fully in my role, in my purpose, in my mission. This is what I'm here to do. And I'm talking to the ones that can, need and should hear that information right now. And that they understand that the state is not their friend. And that they can acknowledge that if the state is against them, it's not the end of the world.
something i've noticed recently and it's anecdotal but i suspect it's true is i'm really
interested to hear your take on it israel is in the public sphere is getting vilified again right
and it appears to be you know people say oh if you were alive in nazi germany you probably would
have been a nazi and people go no i wouldn't no one and it's almost like that same meme is playing
out again and you're being offered a chance to choose whether you actually would be.
Because if you go online now, you see that that is happening.
It seems to be happening again, that you could, if you wanted, give in to this idea,
yeah, they're doing this, they're doing that, which is obviously what happened in Germany,
what happened in blah, blah, blah.
Now, what's your take on that?
You're an Israeli.
Is it a truth in that?
Is it a lie?
Is it real?
Are the Israelis bad?
So here's the thing. If I answer your question right now in the way you framed it, I'm fucked because you just gave a parallel to Nazi Germany.
Well, do you know what I mean, though?
I am not saying you're not right in terms of the behavioral and psychological, sociological trajectories that have taken place during that decade that have led to the rise of the Nazism.
I'm not saying you're wrong.
I'm just saying that that is so explosive and sensitive for an Israeli audience to hear, or even Jewish people that will listen to this, to hear that parallel.
And I believe that that parallel was even true during COVID when you saw people rising against their own brothers and sisters and family members and neighbors because they were afraid of their own well-being.
And so they were willing to sacrifice them and dub them in or whatever, yell at them, try to coerce them, etc., etc.
So that's the same type of behavioral pattern and it's the same type of road to totalitarianism that we see over and over again. And all it takes is to create such a shock, a shocking event or an emergency or a crisis of some sort for people to believe that, oh, because it's so extreme right now, we have to justify an extreme measure.
And that logical fallacy exists in order to justify for people the way they will behave the next day.
and people in Israel on the most part I'm sorry for everyone who I am now triggering with what
I'm about to say are propagandized and brainwashed mindwashed to completely not only accept what the
state is doing but to actually demand the state to go even harder to go and you know kill another
tribe and take over their land and and continue what they're doing no just a little bit more and
then we wipe them out completely and then we hold back on our fortress and take back,
reclaim back what's ours, what always have been ours and have been promised to us in
this book by this God.
So it's a very tough situation to be in.
When you're there, you are not really feeling the salami tactic of the brainwashing.
The what?
Yeah, we call it in Israel the salami tactic because it's like you slice another piece of the salami. So gradually you inject another narrative that will justify something. And then on top of that, you build another thing and another thing. It's just a gradual way of building propaganda, really. And that's working, unfortunately. It's working in Israel.
However, having said that, there is a large chunk of the population in Israel that is resisting the war, that is resisting the current government, the current regime.
And that also acknowledges that some members of the government are completely crazy fundamentalists, extremists, and they are.
In fact, some of them were outlawed a few years ago and Benjamin Netanyahu brought them back in order to raise their electoral power.
So they're completely nuts. And they're in power. And they're in power and in charge of the security in Israel and in charge of finance in Israel. So they're really extreme figures. And they're in power and many people are resisting it.
However, even though there is a big group of people that is resisting what's happening,
I mean, they're vocally against what's happening,
they are not understanding that the whole political sphere is a scam and a joke and completely corrupt.
And they are still calling for another politician to come and replace that one.
And while they're all corrupt, the left and wing are all super like into this.
So there is no real immediate solution to what is happening right now in Israel.
I do think that if.
Netanyahu goes home, it's better for everyone.
But what will come after will probably not be so much better.
Not right now, anyway.
Most people are not aware inside of Israel.
They're not aware of how the world sees them and Israel.
And they are not aware of what's happening in Gaza.
Because the media has a blackout over it.
Yeah, they don't know.
they see some things and they are aware of a fraction of it, but not the whole picture.
And they obviously are not aware to very different opinions so that they can exercise some critical
thinking and make their own minds. They are being fed with what to think on the most part.
There is a little bit of room to navigate inside that sandbox, but not much. And if you're completely
out of it and you're looking at things from a zoomed out perspective from space, you clearly
see what's going on, but you have a lot of compassion to the person that is inside of
Israel because they have no clue.
You know, forgive them for they do not know.
Have you, do you think you've left there for a long time?
I know you're out on the road at the moment.
I've been out for three months now.
I'm going to visit twice in the next six months, but I am out for now.
I don't know where I'm going to live next.
And right now I'm nomading and I'm happy about it.
But I just know that my patience to be physically in Israel has maxed out.
I don't want to be there anymore.
Right now it's very hard.
The energies are very dense.
People are super propagandized.
And it's very hard to even find people to talk to.
It's very hard.
And plus, all they do most of the time is talk about that stuff that is happening there.
So it's very hard to open yourself up to other things that are happening.
And so, I don't know.
And I just feel like I have the privilege because I've been preparing myself for this time for a few years now.
So I have the privilege of taking my own bank with me and taking my suitcase with me and just living an international life for now until I decide where I want to settle down.
How do you find that? Because, you know, we've talked deeply about digital nomadism on this podcast.
Is it opening your eyes to things? Because normally when you do it in real life, suddenly you start noticing all the things you hadn't taken into account when you were dreaming about it or when you were thinking about it.
And suddenly now it's real. Is it a viable way to live, do you think?
It's a viable way to live, for sure.
The question is whether you have the stamina for it, because it takes a lot of strength to withhold it for a long period of time.
I think, obviously, it made me retrospect and reflect over the very basic principles of life, such as building a community and needing social bond and connection with people.
and what is the role of friends?
What is the role of love in your life?
What is home?
What do you call home?
Like all these big philosophical questions
which we take for granted
because we live in a place,
we have home, we have love,
we have all these things around us
and we don't question them.
And so I've been traveling,
just pondering over these principles
and discovering that a lot of the answers are within.
you know it's going to sound like a cliche because most people say that you know it starts inwards
and and you have if you have love within you have love everywhere but it's so true and if you have a
home in yourself you have a home everywhere and funnily enough that's what I've been experiencing
everywhere I've been going every place I've got to all I experienced was a warm welcome and
and love and affection and inclusiveness and community.
And it's not like my national and religion titles are going to give that to me right now.
Not the fact that I'm Jewish, not the fact that I'm Israeli are supposed to open doors for me these days,
but people don't care.
And that's why whenever I'm speaking to someone from home, like Israel home,
and they tell me oh but aren you experiencing anti or any you know critical voices to Jewish people Israelis in specific and aren people talking to you all the time about the war and about what Israel is doing And no I mean the curious I answer questions but it never is a
hurdle for me. And I never feel hate or, yeah, resisted. I mean, except for online,
from time like online people are very mean but in real life I don't experience any of that and
from time to time yeah I see some protests for free Palestine and all that it's kind of becoming
like a normal thing now um but it doesn't make me afraid or I'm not fear I'm not walking around
in the world thinking that someone's out to hurt me or to take me down and I also I'm not afraid
of death. So if I die, I die. It's not a big deal. But it's been a very cool experience to nomad
because I'm 45 years old and I feel like I'm doing what I haven't done when I was 20.
And it develops large quantities of courage within me. And it develops,
it kind of makes me a better person I think it makes me a better listener a better
I don't know if there's a word for it but someone who senses the environment very well
I'm I've got very good intuition and I sense things and people and situations and not in a
not in an anxious way, but in a very alert kind of way. So I'm very in tuned with where I am,
what's going on, who, and it's very easy for me to find my way in a new place again and get used
to stuff very quickly. So I think it's a really great muscle to develop to do this at least once
in your life. And maybe even talking about community and the state of the world and moving
forward, you could argue that the communities that we are creating are decentralized and
actually are parallel. You can't just create a community necessarily in this world and expect
to be left alone. You can create a parallel existence and actually walk through the cracks
in the other system. And I think, I mean, I'm in two minds. I like both. Like we're trying to
create forces with protection yes but but sometimes you have to acknowledge also that most people are
not in that situation yeah and actually you need to live between the cracks in the in the in the
paving stones in order to live a successful life and i think that's what a lot of these tools are
for i think the the particularly the digital tools we're talking about they help you do that in a
massive way and um you know that because you live in an alternative network of people just like i do
It's different.
It's a world that most people don't know anything about.
It's funny.
Honestly.
And it's incredible.
It's like a hack no one discovered yet.
Like this Bitcoin community around the world is the most amazing community of people that
I've ever met.
And obviously it's very different from one place to another, but what connects everyone
is the passion and drive for freedom and sovereignty and the respect for people's existence and
people's private property and private need. It's really beautiful.
Do you know what it is?
And I've been hosted in the most amazing places.
It's the freedom community actually.
It is.
But it's just that Bitcoin's, I think, the first time we've had a tool that works for
kind of libertarianism, for freedom. It actually works. When you had the ideas before, it doesn't
really work.
Yeah.
But Bitcoin really is a tool that works.
And so it's not really the Bitcoin community.
It's just the liberty, freedom community who acknowledge this is the best tool to use now.
And it's really, I agree with you.
I think the main difference between people who quote unquote categorize themselves inside a freedom community versus people who say I'm in the Bitcoin community is that those that are saying I'm in the Bitcoin community.
community and they're not the NGU, the number go up people, they're freedom oriented people.
They're the ones that have been willing to be curious enough, humble enough and put their ego
aside and say there's something new here that I can learn from, that I can develop myself into.
And the ones that are still quote unquote stuck in the freedom community only and haven taken the step forward into Bitcoin is because their ego is in the way That what I think And I met a lot of those people over my traveling the last two years
especially the last three months. Some people that you and I both know, and they're really
well known in the freedom community that they are so primed to get Bitcoin because they're
freedom lovers in their veins, like they're in their cellular existence, they're freedom oriented.
And then I talk to them about Bitcoin. No, no, no, let me rephrase it. They talk to me about
Bitcoin because they are curious. I don't want to talk to them about Bitcoin, swear to God,
because I know they're going to give me all the normal FUD and all that stuff.
But they start talking to me about it, questioning me. I answer them and I see the wall that they are
banging themselves against, which is the wall of ego. And I'm like, dude, you're good. You're
getting it. All you need to do is just say, it's fine that I didn't buy it before. I can still do
it now. It doesn't make me a lesser person. It doesn't make me an idiot. It doesn't make me
anything. I can just join the game. And there's no let go of ego. And there's not let go of pride
by doing that. You're still the same smart person you were before. Now you only just have Bitcoin.
That's the only difference. And they're not letting go. They're like, hang on this tree,
and they don't want to let go. No, no, no, but Roger Ver says it's hijacked. No,
the government can control it. I'm like, hear me out. It's okay. You can take the first step.
And then the only thing that normally works with these people is when I pull out my phone,
and they pull out their phone, and I get them to download an app, and I zap them with like a
thousand sats and they get it within a minute sorry a fraction of a second they get it and then
they look at it and they go fuck this thing really works i now have bitcoin i go yeah i told you
said but but this is yes it's working so that was my rant about the freedom movement which i love so
much and i want all of them to join bitcoin that's that's my audience on my podcast that was a
beautiful um rant Freudian slip no Freudian slip oh the minute they're spending it and then it
takes a minute no no it doesn't take a minute sometimes if if you're hosting your own node and
you're using lightning yes yes but I've been using lightning for three years now in all my trips
everywhere overseas and it it almost I don't I think there was maybe one or two times where it
failed me out of the hundreds of times i've used it it is most definitely amazing it's the easiest
way to make a payment great example this morning trying to fix my drive i'm on chat gpt getting all
the answers and it says you've reached your limit you need to pay 23 euros a month so i thought right
cool well and then i press the button and the page pops up yeah how many fields do i have to fill in
just show me a qr code exactly i just pay like moldad vpn you you know i use that one you don't
even have an you don't have anything or silent link yeah for an e-scene you just have a thing
you do it you pay it's gone it took me about 20 minutes to sign up for chat gpt using my credit
card it's like completely unnecessary i know anyway look we've been going 122 if you gotta go
i have to go i think because i have a flight to catch you do have a flight to catch um let's
leave in a good note then yes um this is is um let's talk about the well we can talk about the
future but you're kind of already saying that why don't we what are we what are you absolutely
um stoked about currently that really probably everyone else needs to know leave leave us with
something that is hope there you go hope and and you're a hopeful person i know because you i am
you've just explained to me what you're doing in your life and it's amazing it's lush you're walking
It's traveling around the world, speaking to people about what you love.
It's funding itself in some shape or form.
This is the dream.
You know, this is like, people used to shed their possessions, get a walking stick and bare feet and walk the road.
That's exactly what you're doing.
Right, exactly.
But you're doing it in the 21st century, which is very, very, very different.
Very different and very digital.
And thanks to this digital world, I can do both.
I can work and travel and make a living.
And I'm just so blessed and I'm very, very grateful and very humbly grateful.
Hope to me is knowing that we going to see a lot of awesome great people and talents joining not just the freedom community but the Bitcoin community
We're going to get an explosion of talented people coming into this space to help us build
alternatives, privacy alternatives, freedom technologies, monetary technologies, things
that will help us communicate better, things that will help us transfer information and
value between people in a more efficient way and in a more private way.
And while the old world is collapsing, its systems are collapsing and are self-sabotaging
themselves while trying to shrink the control and tighten the belt on people's voices.
and freedoms and privacy, we are doing the opposite. We are building things to proliferate
freedom through the digital age. And what gives me hope is for more and more people to see that
digital is not a dirty word, that digital is not necessarily bad or evil, that digital can be
using the same type of mechanism that is trying to control us to free us up.
Digital world can be a digital freedom world. It's possible. So when I see that, and I see that so
many more people are not with us, and some of them will join us thanks to people like you and
what you do, and thanks to my podcast, thanks to so many other wonderful people that are working on
this, it fills me up with hope because I know that even if we are less in number, what we do
is so important because it is creating those rails to a more free society that will choose that kind
of life with the sacrifices it may mean to choose that kind of life. And people will join that way
of living and it will be glorious come and join us thank you a brief but uh invigorating
conversation thank you very much indeed you're going straight to the airport um have a good one
i don't know where i'll see you next probably you're such a sneaky one you come into all the
right places i think it will be 2026 do you know where i'm definitely going to next year where
Fin, what's it called? BTC, the one that everyone's going, Finland.
Helsinki.
No, they call it BTC Hell.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I love it.
Which is a really good, yeah.
So next year you're going to go there?
I think so.
Okay.
You have to go to something new each time.
Yep.
I did Prague last year, this year's, Franny Badger, you know, but Bournemouth certainly,
I think.
One that I really like, I've been to so many conferences, I just want to do like one,
shout out, I'm not getting anything for it,
but it's just to show the Bitcoiners
how many great conferences there are out there.
I think that adopting Bitcoin El Salvador
is really one that is worth going to
because you really feel the grassroots there.
And around that same week,
you also have the Mi Premier Bitcoin Un-Conference,
which also is being done, I think once a year in the US,
But that is also like completely free floating.
Like the shape is just being formed as you get there, when you speak to the people.
So if people like conferences, like this one is one that I really recommend.
I spoke at the first adopting BTC ever.
Where?
In El Salvador.
Yeah, yeah.
It was.
They also have it in South Africa.
Yeah.
I mean, it's amazing.
I mean, you've got to make the pilgrimage anyway.
Everyone knows that.
Yeah.
But yeah, choose conference time because there's always loads of things going on around that time as well.
I'm super curious to get to Africa.
I haven't been to any African conference yet.
And ABC is happening in December, African Bitcoin conference.
I think it's in Mauritius this year, but I'm not planning to go at the moment.
Maybe I will.
Mauritius is like beaches and stuff.
Anyway, look, you've got to go.
Thank you, Efrat.
See you next time.
Good luck with everything.
Love what you do.
Happy to have you here.
Thanks for talking.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Bye-bye.