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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 169 of the Free Cities podcast.

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And this episode is lovingly brought to you by the wonderful Veritas Villages,

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our lead sponsor. They're building off-grid freedom-oriented communities in Latin America.

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And I think you knew that already. However, did you know about their newest land acquisition

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in Costa Rica? I think I might have mentioned it before. What I didn't mention is it's a

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340 acre site that was purchased for, wait for it, $34 million. In fact, that's their largest

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land acquisition to date. Nearly 400 residences planned over there in Atenas.

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Lots going on with Veritas Villages and their communities should appeal to you if you're a

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freedom lover like me looking to live amongst like-minded individuals. They have places in

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Nicaragua and Panama and of course as I mentioned Costa Rica and if you're a bitcoiner well

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you know you can buy a property in one of their villages with bitcoin and you can spend bitcoin

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at all communities you can even mine bitcoin with the excess energy that your home will inevitably

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produce www.veritasvillages.com forward slash free cities right today's show and it's another

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seasteading show now my observation of seasteading is that there's a fair number of people in the

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seasteading world who like to talk about the vision of seasteading however my guest today

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Mitchell Suchner well he is most certainly focused on the economics of seasteading in this episode

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we go deep into what it actually takes to make ocean communities viable not in theory but in

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practice. With his project ArcPad, Mitchell is building a layered model for seasteading that

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starts with real revenue from things like aquaculture, tourism and working infrastructure

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that already exists in the water. And it's something you can see operating right now today

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in his project off the coast of Sanal Island in the Philippines. We also talk about the seasteading

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stack from things like stable offshore platforms and hurricane resilience to fish production,

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his reef resort and the longer term potential of ocean-based industries like mineral extraction,

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autonomous logistics and offshore data and technology operations. I think if seasteading

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is going to scale it most certainly won't be driven by ideology alone. It will be driven by

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exports cash flow and of course reasons for people to actually live and work at sea this

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conversations about how that transition actually happens step by step from small practical projects

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to the foundations of future ocean cities that was my ai that wrote that of course

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but i was trying to make out that i said it

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always experimenting with ai mate right shout outs this week

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to all the ballers adding massively to the free cities podcast stack of bitcoin many thanks to

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our top supporters you are in order matthias rose bids bullish mike nicholas and shadrach

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many thanks they're the top five also thanks to chris your comment it was a strong arm emoji for

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last week's episode with Vikram Bharati also Justin Bianchi he says loved this one also about

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the same episode yeah I did too Justin some people you meet them you just click with them immediately

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and by the way I've always wondered how you pronounce your surname I wonder if you could

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clarify it somehow in a comment I did actually address chat gpt about this and it told me

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that the way I've been saying it Bianchi is correct if you're an Italian but sometimes in

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America they say Bianchi it didn't really clear it up for me so I'd love it if you just told me

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how to say your name because you're often making comments right onwards and upwards time for the

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show time in fact to pluck a fresh fish from the ocean slap it on the barbecue and grab a nice

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quiet spot on your floating veranda as you, in time-honoured tradition, sit back, relax

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and enjoy my conversation with Mitchell Suchner.

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maybe since i've never met you before can we start with um can you give me a bit of a lowdown

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on who you are and and what it is that you do i know what it is but i'd quite like to hear it from

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you first. Sure. So my name is Mitchell Suchner. I am a seasteader, I guess, first and foremost.

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I'm business partners with someone who's based out of Florida and we're together, we're running

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ArcPad. And ArcPad is a general seasteading company. So we're developing seasteads themselves,

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the floating structures where we're trying to, I guess I should say, manage and operate those

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structures to turn a profit. That's why we built the Reef Resort. We're trying to build related

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technology. We're trying to market the technology where anything, I guess, related to seasteading,

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it's we have a project ongoing that is somehow a part of it. You know, the main things that I've

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been talking about over the last few days has been the Reef Resort because it's a thing that's

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on Airbnb and Travelocity and Booking.com. You can book it right now. You can go and stay there.

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So it's a big public thing.

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But we have a bunch of other projects under the hood that some people are not aware of.

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Can I ask you how old you are?

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You seem quite young to me.

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29.

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Oh, is that right?

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That is very young in this.

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How come you're so into seasteading then?

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And especially the business side of it.

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I know a lot of people who like the idea of seasteading.

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But there's only really three main companies involved in actually building the structures.

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And the actual community of Seasteaders is relatively small.

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So have you got a background in, you know, like marine something?

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I don't know.

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Actually, my background was in just general computer science.

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When I first graduated with a degree in computer science, I worked for a few banks.

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I managed the database of a bank.

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I managed the customer-facing website for another bank for a little while.

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That was the main thing that I did.

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But ideologically, I've always been inclined towards liberty and libertarian ideas.

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And so really what happened, the big turning point for me was when we had the government lockdowns, the COVID lockdowns.

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And I was kind of scrolling through YouTube videos and I found out about the Seastead that was built by Chad Elwartowski in Thailand.

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And that kind of woke me up to the idea of Seastead.

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That's one of the few times that seasteading kind of went viral, where a lot of people got hundreds of thousands.

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The whole little series the Seasteading Institute did got like a million views or something along those lines.

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So that kind of got a lot more eyeballs on them.

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And so that's how I got into it.

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And then once I found out, oh, seasteading is a libertarian thing.

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Oh, this can bring you to international waters.

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Oh, you can basically create a new country out of this.

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I actually found seasteading before I found the Free Cities movement and the Network State movement For me seasteading was first but I still today think that seasteading has the capacity for more autonomy and easier negotiation

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to obtain that autonomy compared to free cities and network states, because seasteading can take

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you physically out of the existing countries. And that's something that the other projects

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aren't doing. So as I see it, seasteading is like the layer zero, the physical infrastructure

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that the layer one runs on top of.

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So if the layer one is a network state,

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the layer zero is the seastead

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because you need the physical space to occupy.

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So we can build the physical infrastructure

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and then the free cities projects

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and the network state projects

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can come in and inhabit that infrastructure.

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I'm with you on that.

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It took me a few years to come to the same conclusion.

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I'm slightly different.

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I see the seasteading as,

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I see, for example,

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I see Prospera as a land-based seastead because seasteads are the most, if you're into private cities anyway, if you're into proper sovereign private cities, then the seastead is the best example because it's the most purest form.

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I think other than possibly flying around in space or something on a Death Star or something like that.

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And the last speech at the Mama Shelter Hotel, the last decentralized day thing, he was talking about space-steading.

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And the whole time my father was with me and we were in the background watching this the whole time we're going, you know, I asked him his opinion. Do you think the space studying thing is a good idea? He said, I think it's a great idea, but it's a bit further off than seasteading. And that's true, but it is a great idea. I think space studying will be huge in a thousand years. There will probably be more people living in space than living on Earth, hopefully, you know, but that's a thousand years away.

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Well, and as Joe Quirk would always say, it's too expensive to do it in space.

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It's quite cheap to do it on the water.

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And in fact, so many of the ways they train astronauts, they train space projects, they're all done underwater.

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And if you think there's not enough space on the earth to do it, you're wrong because you're not including underwater as well.

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And seasteading can be an underwater thing as well.

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There's absolutely nothing wrong with it being an underwater thing.

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when um i was looking at your cv in the on the um free cities website and it says that your your

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your business is involved in ai ocean mining drones a load of other stuff not just i mean we'll come

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to arc pads in a bit but that seemed interesting what what about what was ocean mining to begin

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with what is that sure yeah so going back to it we're involved in a bunch of stuff because there's

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a bunch of things that are related to seed studying and we're trying to develop all of these technologies

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and make them accessible, profitable, and beneficial for future seasteads.

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So going back to this ocean mining thing.

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Ocean mining, there's an easy way to do it, which is tightly regulated,

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and there's a more complicated way to do it,

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which currently regulations don't exist for that more complicated way.

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The simple way is seafloor mining.

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With seafloor mining, there is, I don't know the exact number,

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something like a trillion dollars in rare earths and valuable metals

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and platinum and all kinds of things on the seafloor.

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And there's these little, they're called polymetallic nodules.

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And they have magnesium and all kinds of different metals

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that are kind of lumped together into like a big metal ball

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about the size of a golf ball or a softball on the seafloor.

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And there's millions of these on the seafloor.

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If you can just scoop them up and harvest them,

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you've got a mine that's producing multiple different types of metals.

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And you don't even really have an ore that you need to refine heavily.

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You just get pure lumps of metal coming up off the seafloor.

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It is a gold mine, potentially literally a gold mine, right?

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Where is this?

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There are multiple different zones.

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I think one is called the, I'm going to botch the name here, the Clipperton zone or the Clarion-Clipperton zone.

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That's one location where there's a big field of these polymetallic nodules for thousands of square miles.

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Really?

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Yes.

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That's not very well known about, right?

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I know about it.

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A lot of people in the marine industry know about it, but it's illegal to harvest it right now.

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You cannot legally, there is zero capacity to harvest this.

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How far down is it?

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Five or six kilometers.

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Oh, Jesus.

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Right.

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Proper, you know.

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So it's not even that it's legal.

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It's probably very difficult as well.

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It's difficult, but we have the ability.

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If we wanted to, if the green light happened tomorrow, we could harvest these polymetallic nodules.

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So I have the numbers in front of me here. It's 5.95 billion tons of manganese, 270 million tons of nickel, 230 million tons of copper. Copper is valuable. And 50 million tons of cobalt. And cobalt is one of those rare earths that's used in the production of batteries that Elon Musk sometimes talks about.

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cobalt and lithium are both very important for batteries and cobalt a lot of it comes from africa

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so it's kind of politically contentious um but yeah that's so the total commercial value this

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is hundreds of billions of dollars not quite a trillion but as the value of these metals goes up

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over time this one zone will probably end up being worth about a trillion dollars at some

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point in the future and there are other zones like the clearing clipperton and did you say that the

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reason that you can't go down there and mine it right now is because they don't really know what

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the problems might be if you bring it up so it's a desert it's there's not a lot of life down there

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there's some angler fish there's some you know probably there's some giant squids and things like

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that as well and that that's certainly true um but i don't think those metal nodules aren't really

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nutritious right there's certainly bacteria that grows on them but it's more being used for its

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surface area. It's not producing energy. It's not providing nutrition. It's a thing that if you

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removed it from the environment, it would probably be fine. I know there's a lot of environmentalists

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that would say, well, we don't know, so you can't remove it. But it has enormous, even removing

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5% of those polymetallic nodules would have a big impact on our ability to access things like

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cobalt and copper, which is important to access. But they won't let you mine any of it. You can't

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mine any of it. It's about four kilometers deep. But they will? Or what do you think? I mean,

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is that is it something that you're planning on trying to extract at some point?

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Not me? No, I think there are companies out there that are planning to extract this and are actively

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lobbying. But again, you basically have to lobby the UN, which is a difficult thing to do. And so

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seafloor mining is hard and not because it's logistically hard, the technology exists,

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but it's hard in terms of regulations. What's not as difficult in terms of regulations right now is

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what if you had a technology that instead of scraping these rare earth metals off the seafloor

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and disrupting the environment, what if there were little tiny bits of it that were just floating

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around in the ocean and you could create kind of a vacuum to just suck it up out of the water.

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And so you suck up a bunch of water, the salt water goes in, it extracts the cobalt or the

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lithium or whatever and it goes back out with everything included just not the cobalt or the

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lithium but nothing else changes it doesn't affect the ph doesn't affect the salinity doesn't affect

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the dissolved oxygen nothing there's zero environmental impact that's the technology

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that we're developing and we have that technology working in the laboratory two different laboratories

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we've had it working right now that's already a viable technology we're us and maybe a couple

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of universities are the only ones that have this technology working right now and not only that

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But once you have a technology that can extract minerals from the water column in the ocean, as opposed to the seafloor, lower regulation, but also the technology can spread to other dissolved minerals.

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So we have it working for lithium.

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Recently, very recently, we got a round in the laboratory working for rubidium.

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Now, lithium is used to produce batteries.

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Rubidium is used to produce lasers, night vision optics, things like that.

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We're also working on cesium and we're working on other rare earths as well.

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So these are things that we have functional right now.

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Can you be sure that there's not an application of those metals in the water?

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You know you said they inert or whatever but I mean I suppose there a possibility they part of the ecosystem is it I mean to some degree they definitely part of the ecosystem Even iron is a part of the

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ecosystem. So there's a lot of dissolved iron in the ocean, right? And what they did in an experiment

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with, I believe this is the Soviet Union decades ago, they took a bunch of like rust shavings,

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and they dumped it in the Southern Ocean. And there was a huge algal bloom after that,

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Because what they found was that iron was a thing that basically all phytoplankton needs to produce energy through photosynthesis.

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And one of the main bottlenecks to the production of, you know, to algal blooms, to having more algae, is really just a lack of iron in the water.

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It's one of the nutrients that is in low abundance, right?

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But you look at something like lithium, for example.

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Lithium is not used in as many biological processes as compared to like photosynthesis.

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A single cell of algae needs to photosynthesize a lot.

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It doesn't need a lot of lithium.

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So even if you removed 90% or 95% of the lithium, and we know this because we can look in areas

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where there are different concentrations of lithium and different, and lithium just doesn't

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have a big impact on the environment.

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So what I'm saying is it's a lot safer and arguably it's a lot more or I guess has less effect on the environment to pull an element out of the water column than it is to scoop it off the seafloor.

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Another thing to consider is osmosis.

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So if I have a patch of ocean where I magically remove all of the lithium in an instant, the rest of the ocean still is a bunch of lithium.

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It's all going to flood back in there, not in the same concentration, but it kind of has a way of immediately renewing itself to some degree.

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So again, the environmental impact, if you do it in one local area, is considerably decreased.

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So I think that we can make a much better argument from a regulatory standpoint.

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And again, one big difference is it's illegal to mine the seafloor right now.

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There's no laws against taking minerals out of the water column.

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But even when there are, it'll be an easier battle to say, I'm going to take lithium out of the water column.

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I take it that when you mentioned this is all part of a sort of overarching strategy to work at sea.

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things like ocean mining could be the sort of economic driver behind seasteads etc is that

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is that kind of the idea absolutely i mean you know every town every city every country had to

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start with by producing something there have been very few places that got their start

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based off of being a service-based economy i guess you could say venice

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um was probably historically it got started you know it really took off because of trade right but

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most places initially gain a population because there's farming or there's mining. One of those

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two things. So if you want to support a city, if you want to be able to grow a city, it has to have

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something to export. It has to be able to produce something at a profit. So the ocean is great for

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producing seafood and it can be also great for mining rare earths that ironically there's a lot

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more rare earths in the water than there is on land. So how does that all mix with drone tech

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and AI then? Well, it doesn't, I guess you could say it doesn't mix, right? The sea,

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the ocean mining doesn't really mix with AI in a way that's direct. It mixes because they're both

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related to seasteading. So the ocean mining is how can I, okay, the seasteads are how can I build a

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floating city? The ocean mining is how can I give the floating city something to produce? The AI is,

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or I should say the drones are how can I have better logistics or even defenses for a floating

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city. And then the AI is how can I control those drones without a human operator to make them

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cheaper? Or how can I maybe even do something like, you know, build an AI bot to trade crypto

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or something like that, right? So we have an AI team right now. They have a few different projects

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they're working on. I can't really go into detail on the AI because those projects are a bit more

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private and not public facing. But, you know, certainly one of the things we want to do is

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take the drones that we're developing and kind of automate those with AI. You can imagine that

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having goods, you know, boated out to you, even if you're like 13 miles out, right, you need a boat

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to come back and forth and dispose of your waste and to bring you food and to bring you fresh water

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and things like that. So having a boat that doesn't need a driver is going to considerably

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reduce your costs. Well, I spoke to Grant Ramon last year, he has all his deliveries come out on

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drones, and he has food dropped off at his floating place. I think, yeah, obviously,

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It's the future.

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You can tell that.

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But those are probably flying drones.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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The ones that sit in the water can carry 10 times more weight and use less than half the amount of fuel or have much greater extended range.

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Obviously, if you want to talk about logistics with drones, you want water-based drones.

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You don't want flying drones, especially if we're carrying a lot of stuff.

254
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Yeah, yeah.

255
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I see what you mean.

256
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So how does this all fit in then with ArcPad?

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because those things you're talking about there,

258
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they seem quite, actually, I suppose not.

259
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But when you talk about it,

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I'm thinking of giant floating cities.

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But that's probably not true, is it?

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I mean, you could have a mining rig, for example,

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an ocean mining rig, which could be relatively small.

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Size of a house, yeah.

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And so when you extract sort of, you know,

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these, when you extract things from the ocean,

267
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where do they go?

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Where do they sit?

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And do you need a massive, I mean, are we talking on an industrial scale?

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I mean, right now we're doing it lab scale.

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So we're doing it in the laboratory.

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What we're doing is we're actually taking big, you know, 10 gallon jugs of water from the ocean.

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We bring it into a laboratory.

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We test it.

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Can we extract lithium?

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Yes, we can.

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Can we extract rubidium?

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Yes, we can.

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Can we extract cesium?

280
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We're working on it, right?

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And so we're doing it right now with pure salt water, which is a big thing because a lot of universities and scientific institutions, what they'll do when they're doing these experiments, they'll take distilled bottled water, they'll introduce a little bit of lithium or rubidium or something like that, and they'll say, okay, can I extract this from pure water? Yes, I can. My technology is a success.

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They don't consider that there's all these other ions in a saltwater matrix that can all interfere with this chemical process.

283
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And so your machine might work with distilled water, but it's not going to work with saltwater, which is very, very chemically complex.

284
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And so our stuff actually works with saltwater.

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I know this is kind of, you know, I know this is boring for people to hear, but it's really exciting, interesting technology, actually,

286
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because in 20 years, you know, who knows how much of the world's lithium could come from the ocean

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because of what we're doing right now. Right now, there's a monopoly on lithium. There's a handful of

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South American countries, Chile, Bolivia, I think Peru, they control a huge supply of the world's

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lithium. And America basically doesn't produce anywhere near enough lithium to satisfy its own

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needs so having the ability to produce lithium basically anywhere in the world or especially

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near like hydrothermal vents you know which there's thousands of those that higher concentrations

292
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of lithium there um yeah it's going to be a really big game changer hydrothermal vents are really deep

293
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aren't they you find those around the marianas trench don't you i studied that a little bit at

294
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university because there's actually life in hydrothermal vents oh yeah which is bizarre i i

295
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studied zoology at university a very long time ago and hydrothermal vents were one of those

296
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you'll never guess what but in this extremely acidic toxic uh quagmire in a hydrothermal vent

297
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you get basically life and it's completely dark and the pressure is of some ridiculous you know

298
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but um yeah working down there people get down that far do they go down to the marionas trench

299
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in sort of like manned vehicles and stuff.

300
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Is that possible?

301
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They have.

302
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There have been manned vehicles

303
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that went into the Marianas Trench.

304
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I can't remember the last time that it happened.

305
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I know it's happened.

306
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I know people have been down there.

307
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It's total tangent.

308
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What did you think about the guys

309
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that went down to the Titanic?

310
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I mean, in a way, they're kind of,

311
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they're not too distant

312
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from the kind of world you're in, experimental.

313
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Are you talking about the...

314
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The guys that went, you know.

315
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What's the name of the company?

316
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I can't remember.

317
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Was it like blue Whatever Did you think it looked irresponsible The homemade submarine guys yes yeah I mean it we shouldn laugh mate they got completely compressed probably I should not laugh

318
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at that I'm sorry now I got myself laughing I had a conversation with my parents after this happened

319
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um you know because they were like oh wow this is kind of similar to what you're doing it should

320
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be we should be concerned this is dangerous I told them you know no this is not what they did

321
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is taking humans wildly out of their own natural environment, right? If you take humans to space

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and something goes wrong with a spaceship, everybody dies because the environment is

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dramatically different from the one that humans are acclimatized to. The surface of the ocean

324
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is nowhere near as deep as the Mariana's Drench. Everybody can go on a boat. Everybody can go

325
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cross the ocean on, on a, you know, even like a rubber dinghy and people do it all the time.

326
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It's, it's not as, I'm not going to say sea staying is not complex, but it's not as complex

327
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and it's not as dangerous as deep sea travel or, or space travel. So there's not as many things that

328
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can go wrong. Fortunately, I know there are some people, um, Atlantis sea colony is one that comes

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to mind where they want people to live on the bottom of the ocean. And that's awesome. But I

330
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think that it's a little bit further away. I'd be willing to bet that it's closer than space

331
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steading. I think there'll be underwater cities before there are space cities.

332
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I think that goes without saying. I've got a feeling they'll even be testing them on purpose

333
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under there, you know, because it's a good environment to test them. Something just occurred

334
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to me when you think about the seasteading ecosystem, you're the only company that's

335
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actually thinking about creating a way of monetizing your seastead at the same time,

336
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other than, you know, obviously Airbnbs or, you know, is that right?

337
00:26:47,994 --> 00:26:51,254
Is that a fair observation of what you're doing?

338
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Is it that you're trying to give it a use, like a good economic use case,

339
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almost before you've actually created the actual thing?

340
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Yes, absolutely.

341
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If, I mean, I view myself as a city founder more even than an entrepreneur.

342
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If I'm going to build a city, I need to figure out what is it going to export?

343
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What can it export? What can it produce? What can it build? Why would people choose to live here

344
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rather than live where they came from? How can I attract immigrants? I already have the mindset

345
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of a city founder. I already have the mindset of someone who basically is trying to advocate,

346
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not even just for a technology, but for a country. You should come move to my country. I'm like an

347
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immigrant spokesman. Because we need that. If we're going to build cities in the ocean, we need

348
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to give a compelling argument to people. Why should you live in the ocean? And a big one's

349
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economics. Can you have a good paying job out there? I had this when I was talking to Joe this

350
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morning, I was giving my layman's viewpoint, which is I love the kind of what Grant's doing,

351
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what I think these personal kind of places to live on the ocean, but they're an absolute niche

352
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market as far as I'm concerned. I would not want to live there. What I want, I want to go straight

353
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to the floating island and the more it looks like land the better the larger and the more it looks

354
00:28:12,354 --> 00:28:19,374
like land the better however i'm aware that there's bound to be this interim period of something like

355
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interlocking structures something something that looks quite you know clunky and probably a little

356
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bit like an oil rig and and which isn't the kind of place i want to go and live any either however

357
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If it's a business, it's different.

358
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You know, I'd go and work on an oil rig, no problem.

359
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I don't care there's no forest or woodland on an oil rig.

360
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But if I was to move to a floating city, which the only way I would ever do that would be in the point where they are large islands that move around, which is coming.

361
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I'm absolutely certain that that will exist.

362
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It may not be in my lifetime.

363
00:28:55,374 --> 00:28:56,114
I don't really know.

364
00:28:56,494 --> 00:28:57,794
I think it'll be in your lifetime.

365
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I think it will.

366
00:28:59,954 --> 00:29:00,574
You really?

367
00:29:00,574 --> 00:29:09,054
how old are you 54 it'll be in your life you had to think about that but all right describe those

368
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islands then and you know before we get into your other stuff i mean because for me it's like

369
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i want like you talk to any normie who's not into seasteading and it will be like can i go for a run

370
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can i have a campfire around around in the woods can i walk my dog can i go for a jog you know

371
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and for me I'm a wilderness fan so it would be great if I at least felt like there was this area

372
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of of wilderness on these places and I so because really the the thought of living at sea is has

373
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has no appeal to me at all but the sort of the thought of living on an island yeah you know

374
00:29:47,314 --> 00:29:53,494
um I'd love to live on an island it doesn't really matter even how big it is if it has beaches around

375
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the side and a couple of biomes, we were all good, you know? So that version of the Seastead,

376
00:29:59,554 --> 00:30:07,614
you think that's coming in my lifetime? It depends. It depends on what do you mean by

377
00:30:07,614 --> 00:30:17,794
wilderness? Um, you could build an oil rig really big. You could have an internal room inside that

378
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oil rig. You could make it hot, humid, add some fog, add some mist, put some trees in there,

379
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have a canopy, have like lush tropical, you could have like a self-contained box of jungle

380
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floating in the middle of the ocean. We could do that today. That would be very expensive.

381
00:30:32,974 --> 00:30:37,274
No, I don't mean that. Right. And do you know what I've just realized is you've got to, what,

382
00:30:37,274 --> 00:30:42,774
what, what, um, what biome are you going to choose? Because if you, if you start out in

383
00:30:42,774 --> 00:30:45,834
the tropics and end up somewhere a bit more temperate, all your plants might die.

384
00:30:46,394 --> 00:30:50,234
Right. Well, that's kind of what I mean. You know, when you say what biomes are available,

385
00:30:50,234 --> 00:30:54,614
I'm thinking, do you mean we're going to build the biome or do you mean we're going to move into the biome?

386
00:30:54,614 --> 00:30:56,394
It's like saying what biome is available in Russia.

387
00:30:56,554 --> 00:30:58,154
Tundra, that's what's available in Russia.

388
00:30:58,254 --> 00:31:06,074
Yeah, but what I mean is I think for mass adoption of floating cities,

389
00:31:06,854 --> 00:31:11,374
you've got to look to the land-based ones to get an idea of what people like.

390
00:31:11,494 --> 00:31:16,014
And sure, slums exist, terrible cities exist, but no one wants to live on them.

391
00:31:16,014 --> 00:31:20,634
and you're not and you're attracting people there and it's not just going to be about economics

392
00:31:20,634 --> 00:31:24,774
probably it's going to be because it's an unusual thing it's going to be it's going to be about some

393
00:31:24,774 --> 00:31:31,274
other things so so there's got to be green spaces me personally i'd like to feel like i'm on an

394
00:31:31,274 --> 00:31:36,694
island i mean if you could make them as big as the isle of wight in the uk with fields and and

395
00:31:36,694 --> 00:31:42,054
things like that even better you know and i'm sure that will actually come one day i think in the

396
00:31:42,054 --> 00:31:48,614
beginning, like I say, the interim period, I'm not that interested in. But now you've just mentioned,

397
00:31:49,174 --> 00:31:53,634
now I've just noticed what you're doing. And I'm thinking, yes, you're creating a business,

398
00:31:53,634 --> 00:32:00,234
then you're applying it to seasteading. Yeah. If the price was right, I'd go and work on an oil rig,

399
00:32:00,274 --> 00:32:03,714
or I would have done when I was younger, because the price normally is right. You get paid very

400
00:32:03,714 --> 00:32:08,194
good wages to go and work on oil rigs. I'm sure a lithium mine would pay a lot of money.

401
00:32:08,194 --> 00:32:11,274
Yeah. Especially a C, a lithium mine. Yeah, absolutely.

402
00:32:12,054 --> 00:32:41,854
So, so to kind of get back to your question, you know, when are they going to look like islands? I don't want to disappoint you, but I don't know if they'll ever look like islands, at least the affordable ones, the ones for rich people. Yeah, absolutely. But the standard ones, what, here's what I imagine. There will be districts. You start with a single house, then you give it a lawn, right? So a green space. Then you add another house next door and another house next door and another house next door and a street connecting them all. And so it would probably end up looking more like suburbia.

403
00:32:42,054 --> 00:32:59,414
There's going to be green space. There's probably going to be some trees scattered around because that's certainly affordable. But to say that I'm going to build a 10 square mile forest in the ocean or something like that, the amount of maintenance that you're talking about is realistically that's too much to handle.

404
00:32:59,414 --> 00:33:04,454
That's why you can't build a forest in Russia.

405
00:33:04,454 --> 00:33:06,874
You can't build a tundra in the desert.

406
00:33:06,874 --> 00:33:11,874
I can't build snowy cliffs in Dubai, even though they'd really love to do that.

407
00:33:11,874 --> 00:33:12,874
They do, though.

408
00:33:12,874 --> 00:33:13,874
I'll take it back.

409
00:33:13,874 --> 00:33:16,274
You can do it, but it's expensive.

410
00:33:16,274 --> 00:33:17,274
It's really expensive.

411
00:33:17,274 --> 00:33:18,274
It's purpose-built.

412
00:33:18,274 --> 00:33:19,954
It's not just something the middle class can have.

413
00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:25,752
middle class is going to have, what the average person is going to have is a suburb here, a suburb

414
00:33:25,752 --> 00:33:30,712
there, another suburb over there, floating suburbia everywhere. And you walk out, you go to the bus

415
00:33:30,712 --> 00:33:34,412
stop, the boat stop, you get in a boat and it takes you over to your friend's neighborhood

416
00:33:34,412 --> 00:33:38,092
district or it takes you to the business district or it takes you to the mining district. And all

417
00:33:38,092 --> 00:33:42,532
these districts are floating maybe a couple miles away from each other. So you have this open blue

418
00:33:42,532 --> 00:33:48,112
space in between every district and you don't have to get on a bus boat to go from one district to

419
00:33:48,112 --> 00:33:52,032
another and ride with other people, you can take your boat. Or if you want to take your own private

420
00:33:52,032 --> 00:33:56,652
boat, not to a district, but just to the open ocean, there's the wilderness. There's the great

421
00:33:56,652 --> 00:34:01,292
expanse. You can go out into the middle of the ocean and you can go see whales and you can go

422
00:34:01,292 --> 00:34:05,992
see orcas and you can go see dolphins and you can go scuba diving. You can even go scuba diving under

423
00:34:05,992 --> 00:34:09,992
the cities that, you know, even some of them, depending on what type of seastead you're talking

424
00:34:09,992 --> 00:34:15,072
about, maybe it's five feet deep, maybe it's 50 feet deep, but you can go way down and see all of

425
00:34:15,072 --> 00:34:20,592
these you know huge fish there's really huge fish out in the middle of the ocean there's ore fish

426
00:34:20,592 --> 00:34:24,272
there's hopefully you don't see a giant squid that'd be that'd be dangerous but sometimes they

427
00:34:24,272 --> 00:34:29,152
come up to the surface at night or near to the surface there would be nature dangerous are giant

428
00:34:29,152 --> 00:34:33,532
squids dangerous they can be dangerous a humble squid is dangerous a humble squid will attack

429
00:34:33,532 --> 00:34:37,532
people what do they do how do they attack you they have these long tentacles and they reach out

430
00:34:37,532 --> 00:34:41,912
and they grab you and then i guess they rip you apart really i mean no one's ever been attacked

431
00:34:41,912 --> 00:34:45,912
by a giant squid and and live to tell the tale so i just assume they ripped you apart

432
00:34:45,912 --> 00:34:53,972
i'm joking no but seriously how do they do they constrict you or something no so what squid usually

433
00:34:53,972 --> 00:34:58,412
do is they have like a bunch of short tentacles and they have two long tentacles and when they

434
00:34:58,412 --> 00:35:03,952
get nearby to something they shoot out the long tentacles like a like an arrow and it grabs the

435
00:35:03,952 --> 00:35:09,272
thing and then it pulls them in and then they have a beak like a parrot's beak inside of all the short

436
00:35:09,272 --> 00:35:14,032
tentacles. The short tentacles pull back, the parrot's beak comes out and it just bites the

437
00:35:14,032 --> 00:35:20,292
thing that it just grabbed. Really? Yeah. Didn't know that. What have they got? Any teeth-like

438
00:35:20,292 --> 00:35:24,952
structures in there? It's a beak. It's like a parrot's beak. Really? A squid has a beak? Yes.

439
00:35:25,232 --> 00:35:31,552
Jesus. Looks just like a parrot's beak. Right. You learn a new thing every day. That's a complete,

440
00:35:31,972 --> 00:35:34,912
and I did a degree in zoology as well. I should probably know that.

441
00:35:35,892 --> 00:35:41,212
Now, when you describe the floating neighborhoods and stuff, this is what instantly comes to mind.

442
00:35:41,532 --> 00:35:43,172
You know, a little bit of choppy water.

443
00:35:43,512 --> 00:35:46,012
And now everyone's house is doing that and the roads doing that.

444
00:35:46,112 --> 00:35:49,572
And the bits, you know, obviously I'm wrong because you wouldn't do that.

445
00:35:49,752 --> 00:35:51,612
Why am I thinking that?

446
00:35:51,692 --> 00:35:53,372
What's the reality going to be?

447
00:35:53,372 --> 00:35:59,552
The reality is, so if you look at the ArcPad, we have two different designs on our website you can see right now.

448
00:35:59,612 --> 00:36:00,592
One is the Hexa Farm.

449
00:36:00,952 --> 00:36:02,992
And we're working on improving the design.

450
00:36:03,132 --> 00:36:04,852
Right now it's meant for just coastal waters.

451
00:36:04,912 --> 00:36:08,492
I'd love to have like a more deep water version of the hexa farm. The other one is the arc pad.

452
00:36:08,692 --> 00:36:12,812
The arc pad is on spars. So if you look at these big columns that go down to the water,

453
00:36:12,932 --> 00:36:16,652
if you look at an oil rig, it's built the same way. Big columns going into the water. You look

454
00:36:16,652 --> 00:36:23,112
at the sea pad with Grant, it's a big column going into the water. And the arc pad has nine

455
00:36:23,112 --> 00:36:29,492
of these big columns. And what spars do is it's kind of complicated. So I'll simplify it down.

456
00:36:29,492 --> 00:36:38,432
Basically, when a wave hits the side of your seastead, it will roll under the seastead without causing it to wildly tilt back and forth.

457
00:36:38,912 --> 00:36:45,472
And the reason for that is because these spars minimize the contact area with the surface of the water.

458
00:36:45,612 --> 00:36:51,412
So instead of all the buoyancy being at like one inch depth, most of the buoyancy, it goes down deeper, right?

459
00:36:51,412 --> 00:36:59,252
So basically, the way the calculation works is the more buoyancy you have below where the wave can hit, the less impact the wave has.

460
00:36:59,492 --> 00:37:05,672
So instead of a wave hitting you when you turn to the side, the wave can hit you and just go under and you don't even notice it.

461
00:37:05,672 --> 00:37:13,132
So spars, depending on how big your spars are, how many spars you have, you can ride out a storm and not even really know you're going through a storm.

462
00:37:13,232 --> 00:37:15,112
But again, that comes down to personal preference.

463
00:37:15,272 --> 00:37:16,992
What kind of seastead do you want?

464
00:37:17,832 --> 00:37:21,752
And what about movement, you know, on the point of the compass?

465
00:37:22,392 --> 00:37:24,352
Do they stay in one place quite well?

466
00:37:24,792 --> 00:37:26,412
Because they're not touching anything, right?

467
00:37:26,632 --> 00:37:29,472
I mean, they're not they're not they're not piled down into the ground.

468
00:37:29,492 --> 00:37:33,752
They literally, yeah. So what would stop things crashing into each other?

469
00:37:34,972 --> 00:37:39,872
So again, this depends on, are you talking about coastal or are you talking about like the floating cities in the ocean?

470
00:37:40,032 --> 00:37:41,492
Floating cities, I think so, yeah.

471
00:37:41,672 --> 00:37:48,412
What I think would happen, what I anticipate happening is either A, they're going to be anchored to a seamount,

472
00:37:48,532 --> 00:37:52,852
which is a shallow area in the middle of the ocean. It's like the top of an underwater mountain. That's a seamount.

473
00:37:53,192 --> 00:37:55,672
You can run a line down there and anchor it.

474
00:37:55,672 --> 00:38:04,112
And if you anchor one here and one a mile away at the other side of the mountain, they're not going to hit each other because there's a rope connecting them to the top of this underwater mountain.

475
00:38:04,192 --> 00:38:05,312
So they're not going to bump into each other.

476
00:38:05,692 --> 00:38:11,032
If they're free floating, which usually means they're following some kind of an ocean current or something along those lines.

477
00:38:11,092 --> 00:38:12,232
Maybe it's like a circular current.

478
00:38:12,292 --> 00:38:12,932
That's called a gyre.

479
00:38:13,232 --> 00:38:14,692
So they just go in circles all day long.

480
00:38:15,452 --> 00:38:18,672
And that way they'll stay in the same place, which you want for a city.

481
00:38:19,492 --> 00:38:23,692
If that's the case, you're going to have a single boat on standby,

482
00:38:23,972 --> 00:38:27,112
or you're going to have some kind of like an underwater electric propulsion system

483
00:38:27,112 --> 00:38:28,572
that just turns on in emergencies.

484
00:38:29,112 --> 00:38:33,692
And if I see that my neighborhood and your neighborhood are getting too close,

485
00:38:34,092 --> 00:38:35,572
and they're about to bump into each other,

486
00:38:35,792 --> 00:38:37,592
I'm going to turn on that propulsion system,

487
00:38:37,612 --> 00:38:40,272
and they're going to move away from each other, and everything's fine.

488
00:38:40,272 --> 00:38:43,792
But if the propulsion system fails, and they end up colliding,

489
00:38:44,572 --> 00:38:47,012
they're going to collide at like half a mile an hour, and nothing's going to happen.

490
00:38:47,492 --> 00:38:47,912
Oh, right.

491
00:38:48,672 --> 00:38:51,772
The Hexa Farm, I think I've seen that.

492
00:38:51,992 --> 00:38:55,112
Is that the one that's in existence off the coast of the Philippines?

493
00:38:55,472 --> 00:38:57,172
They're both in existence off the coast of the Philippines.

494
00:38:57,372 --> 00:38:58,252
What, the ArcPad as well?

495
00:38:58,512 --> 00:38:58,812
Yes.

496
00:38:58,992 --> 00:38:59,352
Is it?

497
00:38:59,512 --> 00:39:01,492
The ArcPad C, the version C.

498
00:39:01,672 --> 00:39:03,972
The final version is the version D.

499
00:39:04,132 --> 00:39:07,892
So we actually put the C in the water last September.

500
00:39:08,172 --> 00:39:14,452
Since we put it in the water, it has ridden out two hurricanes and sustained no damages.

501
00:39:14,452 --> 00:39:19,592
Did you by any chance have cameras running and things like that to see what was happening?

502
00:39:19,832 --> 00:39:20,512
Was someone on it?

503
00:39:20,952 --> 00:39:21,852
No one was on it.

504
00:39:21,892 --> 00:39:23,052
We did have cameras running.

505
00:39:23,532 --> 00:39:25,372
And I think we put out a video last year.

506
00:39:25,432 --> 00:39:27,432
I don't have any recording of the recent hurricane.

507
00:39:28,092 --> 00:39:32,592
Actually, okay, there's another hurricane that's about to hit in just a couple of days.

508
00:39:33,012 --> 00:39:34,772
There's a guy that lives on an island nearby.

509
00:39:35,112 --> 00:39:40,052
And just before I came in and saw you today, I messaged my employee who knows the guy.

510
00:39:40,052 --> 00:39:46,672
I was like, hey, if it's safe, can you go out on your your balcony and just go up to your window when the hurricane hits?

511
00:39:46,712 --> 00:39:49,612
And can you get some video for me so I can put that on social media?

512
00:39:49,832 --> 00:39:52,352
And so I don't know if I'm going to get any new video or not.

513
00:39:52,352 --> 00:39:55,012
But I know we had some some pictures and video from last year.

514
00:39:55,272 --> 00:39:56,572
And that's anchored, right?

515
00:39:56,932 --> 00:39:57,612
That's anchored.

516
00:39:58,012 --> 00:39:58,972
That's anchored in place.

517
00:39:59,212 --> 00:40:01,872
So I don't know what they I don't know what the arc pad looks like.

518
00:40:01,912 --> 00:40:03,252
I know what the hexa farm is.

519
00:40:03,332 --> 00:40:05,332
Is that the one that's an Airbnb now as well?

520
00:40:05,332 --> 00:40:09,492
Because I saw some Filipino influence.

521
00:40:10,232 --> 00:40:11,832
Hi, welcome to my holiday.

522
00:40:12,052 --> 00:40:13,592
I'm kind of living on the sea.

523
00:40:14,072 --> 00:40:15,052
That's the hexaform.

524
00:40:15,432 --> 00:40:15,732
Right.

525
00:40:15,892 --> 00:40:16,632
Describe it.

526
00:40:17,652 --> 00:40:19,412
So it has two pieces.

527
00:40:20,092 --> 00:40:22,612
One is the farm, the hexaform itself.

528
00:40:22,732 --> 00:40:26,232
It's a big hexagonally shaped fish cage.

529
00:40:26,472 --> 00:40:32,712
And it's actually kind of like a tiered fish cage where there's a cage and then another cage encompassing the smaller cage.

530
00:40:32,752 --> 00:40:34,112
It's like a nested cage system.

531
00:40:34,112 --> 00:40:40,332
and one of the reasons we did this is because the central cage is for high stocking density of fish

532
00:40:40,332 --> 00:40:45,992
typically milk fish you feed them they're like 30 fish per cubic meter very very densely stocked

533
00:40:45,992 --> 00:40:50,032
and then you get tons and tons and tons of them i think last time we did a harvest of a single cage

534
00:40:50,032 --> 00:40:57,232
we got about 11 metric tons in less than six months so you can produce way more food than you

535
00:40:57,232 --> 00:41:01,372
need to feed the amount of people on the resort which is why if this were in the middle of the

536
00:41:01,372 --> 00:41:05,432
ocean today, this would already be a net food exporter. We'd already be exporting seafood as of

537
00:41:05,432 --> 00:41:12,792
today, which is great. But then the outer cage is for the loose packing density. We pack them like

538
00:41:12,792 --> 00:41:18,452
four or five or six fish per cubic meter. And we typically use rabbit fish for this because

539
00:41:18,452 --> 00:41:25,772
the waste product of the milk fish will allow algae and sea sponges to grow in the cage of the

540
00:41:25,772 --> 00:41:30,312
rabbit fish. The rabbit fish will eat the sea sponges and eat the algae and the things that

541
00:41:30,312 --> 00:41:32,912
grow on the cage, and then they feed themselves.

542
00:41:32,912 --> 00:41:34,252
So you feed the milk fish,

543
00:41:34,252 --> 00:41:49,690
and the rabbit fish get fed for free which they not directly eating the waste part like they not poop They they they clean fish you know but it it like a two for one special And most fish farms don do that to the degree that we do So ours is actually a bit more efficient in that

544
00:41:49,690 --> 00:41:55,450
sense. So once again, you've designed this with a way to generate income as well. Yes.

545
00:41:55,810 --> 00:42:00,190
What about the tourism side of it? Is that, that part of it? Or are these designed to sort of be

546
00:42:00,190 --> 00:42:04,370
floating fish farms essentially? Right. So the step one is the floating fish farm.

547
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:07,610
The step two is, okay, so we have a hexagon in the water.

548
00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:08,930
You can imagine a hexagon, right?

549
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:11,330
You got the small hexagon, you got the big hexagon.

550
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:14,590
Now draw a line from the corner of each hexagon.

551
00:42:14,670 --> 00:42:16,590
This will be hard for people that are listening to the audio.

552
00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:20,510
Draw a line, and what you'll end up with is six cells,

553
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:24,250
like little rectangular pieces that kind of go around in a big circle, right?

554
00:42:24,310 --> 00:42:25,670
So you have six of these cells.

555
00:42:26,330 --> 00:42:30,370
In every cell, we take another floating platform,

556
00:42:30,850 --> 00:42:34,210
which we just call it a reef platform because it's the reef resort, right?

557
00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:38,190
but it's basically like this fiberglass and stainless steel, like, you know, purpose built

558
00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:43,610
platform. And you put that in the water and then you put housing on top of it. And the housing can

559
00:42:43,610 --> 00:42:46,950
be anything. We're using like glamping tents right now, but we're going to upgrade to fiberglass

560
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:53,050
houses, especially when we, when we do an expansion. And so that housing is where people

561
00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:58,870
can actually live. So you got the high density farm in the center, then you got the houses on

562
00:42:58,870 --> 00:43:04,170
the side and then below the houses, you got the low density farm. So if you put a glass bottom

563
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:08,430
floor in your room. These are mostly studio units because it's a resort. It's like a hotel, right?

564
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:13,670
So there's studio units right now. You put a glass bottom. You can actually look down and you can see

565
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:17,990
there's still like thousands of fish below you while you're sleeping at night. I've thought of,

566
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:23,990
we'll put like a little light in the water. So at night, all the rabbit fish, they tend to kind of

567
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:27,910
crowd around lights. So you can imagine when you're going to sleep, we don't have the glass

568
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:31,590
bottoms yet, but we will soon. When you're going to sleep, you'll look down, you'll see all the

569
00:43:31,590 --> 00:43:35,330
rabbit fish swarming around and just kind of, you know, swing around in circles and it's in this

570
00:43:35,330 --> 00:43:41,110
light underwater. It's going to look really cool. How and how's business at this place? I mean,

571
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:46,830
you're renting them out, you're farming the fish. In fact, I've got a feeling there's a restaurant

572
00:43:46,830 --> 00:43:51,910
there as well, isn't there? So are you cooking the fish in the restaurant? Yes, we are. Yes.

573
00:43:52,210 --> 00:43:57,290
So how is how is business going? Is it all up and ready and rentable and all this kind of stuff? I

574
00:43:57,290 --> 00:44:04,730
know i saw influences there yep um as of september 1 we opened for overnight stays

575
00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:12,950
so in september and october we've been fully booked every weekend for the last two months

576
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:20,210
and just this past weekend two days ago um only saturday was fully booked not sunday but on

577
00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:26,810
saturday we were fully booked and there was a an additional boat of tourists that showed up

578
00:44:26,810 --> 00:44:28,890
and wanted to do like a walk-in.

579
00:44:29,070 --> 00:44:30,930
So we could only accommodate them for a day two

580
00:44:30,930 --> 00:44:32,310
or they couldn't stay overnight

581
00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:33,150
because the rooms were booked.

582
00:44:33,210 --> 00:44:34,950
But we were basically like double capacity.

583
00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:36,810
And that was fine because again,

584
00:44:36,890 --> 00:44:38,770
we build these floating platforms too.

585
00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:39,850
Some people would be worried,

586
00:44:39,950 --> 00:44:41,210
oh, you're over capacity.

587
00:44:41,310 --> 00:44:41,890
Is it going to sink?

588
00:44:42,090 --> 00:44:43,250
No, it's not going to sink.

589
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:45,130
And what happens in a storm?

590
00:44:45,890 --> 00:44:46,310
In a storm.

591
00:44:46,370 --> 00:44:47,090
Have you had a storm?

592
00:44:47,610 --> 00:44:48,590
We've had several storms.

593
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:50,070
We haven't had a hurricane.

594
00:44:50,790 --> 00:44:52,750
The glamp houses, the hexa farms.

595
00:44:53,230 --> 00:44:54,730
So the glamp houses are the housing.

596
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:56,750
The hexa farm is like the farm thingy

597
00:44:56,750 --> 00:44:58,190
that the housing sits inside of, right?

598
00:44:58,310 --> 00:44:59,570
So just clear there.

599
00:45:00,110 --> 00:45:01,310
It's been through several storms.

600
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:03,050
It's been through tropical storms.

601
00:45:03,330 --> 00:45:04,570
It has not been through a hurricane

602
00:45:04,570 --> 00:45:06,870
because it's south of the hurricane belt.

603
00:45:07,330 --> 00:45:08,610
So once you get close enough to the equator,

604
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:09,790
there's no longer any hurricanes.

605
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:10,930
And that's important because

606
00:45:10,930 --> 00:45:12,570
if you want to build a floating city,

607
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:13,630
a true seastead,

608
00:45:14,010 --> 00:45:15,590
you really do want to build it

609
00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:16,830
at or near the equator

610
00:45:16,830 --> 00:45:19,690
or in an area that does not get hurricanes.

611
00:45:21,150 --> 00:45:23,590
Yeah, you just definitely want to do that

612
00:45:23,590 --> 00:45:25,310
because even if you build something

613
00:45:25,310 --> 00:45:26,270
to survive a hurricane,

614
00:45:26,270 --> 00:45:31,850
no one will be comfortable in a hurricane so in the storms that you've had i presumably you just

615
00:45:31,850 --> 00:45:37,170
have to shut it down and say we're closed for a couple of days well for the tropical storms no uh

616
00:45:37,170 --> 00:45:43,830
there was one time where there was an earthquake and there was a threat of a tsunami

617
00:45:43,830 --> 00:45:49,490
this is a great lead up this is a great marketing pitch for our resort

618
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:54,690
there was an earthquake and the coast guard contacted us and said,

619
00:45:54,910 --> 00:45:59,150
you need to bring your guests back to land because we're worried about a tsunami.

620
00:45:59,630 --> 00:46:03,530
Now, the funny thing is if you're deep enough in the ocean and a tsunami hits,

621
00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:04,350
it's no problem.

622
00:46:04,590 --> 00:46:09,010
Right. The wave doesn't break. It just rolls under you. So you don't even notice anything.

623
00:46:09,010 --> 00:46:13,250
So actually, if you're too near to the shore, the bigger danger is being too close to land.

624
00:46:13,690 --> 00:46:18,810
Now, no tsunami hit. And even if a tsunami had hit, because of where we are, the bathymetry,

625
00:46:18,810 --> 00:46:21,770
that the layout of the seafloor probably would have been like one foot tall.

626
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:23,950
So it probably wasn't a big danger anyways,

627
00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:25,750
but the Coast Guard still want us to evacuate.

628
00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:28,310
During the tropical storms, we don't really evacuate.

629
00:46:28,590 --> 00:46:30,790
Is it windy in those storms?

630
00:46:30,990 --> 00:46:31,910
Yeah, it's very windy.

631
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:34,970
It's very windy and there are somewhat significant waves,

632
00:46:35,130 --> 00:46:36,930
but not so much that it makes it uncomfortable

633
00:46:36,930 --> 00:46:39,750
and certainly not enough to put people in danger.

634
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:40,430
Really?

635
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:42,350
Yeah, you can easily build a safe system.

636
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:45,030
The Hexer Farm has pillars or not?

637
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:45,870
No, no.

638
00:46:45,870 --> 00:46:48,870
But it doesn't kind of go all over when the waves come.

639
00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:49,850
No, it doesn't.

640
00:46:50,030 --> 00:46:54,550
Part of the reason is because, so the pillars are for rolling over huge waves.

641
00:46:54,710 --> 00:47:01,170
If you just have smaller, medium-sized waves, all that you really need is to kind of be built like a barge.

642
00:47:01,290 --> 00:47:04,030
And a barge is just like a big rectangle sitting in the water.

643
00:47:04,370 --> 00:47:08,450
And really, if you go wide enough with something, if you make it very, very wide,

644
00:47:08,450 --> 00:47:16,570
then any wave that is less than the length of that rectangle in the water there's more math

645
00:47:16,570 --> 00:47:21,270
that goes into it than this but any wave that hits it that's not sufficiently large isn't going to be

646
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:27,350
able to tilt it instead is just going to hit the platform apply stress to the hull and as long as

647
00:47:27,350 --> 00:47:31,430
the stress isn't enough to break the hull nothing happens it just stays level so as long as they're

648
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:36,810
built strong enough they'll just go through small and medium-sized waves and they won't move around

649
00:47:36,810 --> 00:47:42,250
unlike a boat, which a boat is built for speed. So it's supposed to go fast with the water. So you

650
00:47:42,250 --> 00:47:47,670
have a specific shape to go fast and a specific shape to not rock around a bunch. And obviously,

651
00:47:48,310 --> 00:47:53,770
the hexaform doesn't move. So it's built to basically just always be stable. So the only

652
00:47:53,770 --> 00:47:58,710
waves that could rocket around are tropical storm waves, which it does rock during tropical storms,

653
00:47:58,850 --> 00:48:04,390
and of course, hurricanes. But with the arc pad, it wouldn't even rock during tropical storms,

654
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:07,210
it would take a hurricane to really make it shake around.

655
00:48:09,590 --> 00:48:11,110
It's hard to comprehend that.

656
00:48:11,550 --> 00:48:15,830
I think, unless you probably look at an oil rig in a storm.

657
00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:16,250
Yeah.

658
00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:19,930
Because they, yeah, because they withstand,

659
00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:21,850
like they put those in the North Sea,

660
00:48:21,970 --> 00:48:23,750
they put those in terrible places, don't they?

661
00:48:23,850 --> 00:48:24,110
Yes.

662
00:48:25,250 --> 00:48:26,330
And those rarely sink.

663
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:28,730
Like, you know, when an oil rig sinks,

664
00:48:28,730 --> 00:48:33,910
it's much more likely to be due to human error than a storm.

665
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:40,690
Right. So Hexafarm, ArcPad, ocean mining, drones, and AI.

666
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:42,790
That's the stack.

667
00:48:43,330 --> 00:48:44,170
That's the stack.

668
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:46,570
That's the kind of seasteading stack, isn't it?

669
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:48,330
Oh, and tourism, of course.

670
00:48:48,530 --> 00:48:48,870
Tourism.

671
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:51,770
Tourism is another one of these prongs, isn't it?

672
00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:56,810
Well, I guess the stack, the income stack is aquaculture.

673
00:48:57,290 --> 00:48:58,630
That's the production of fish and seaweed.

674
00:48:59,390 --> 00:49:02,270
Tourism, because aquaculture, you can start making money right away.

675
00:49:02,270 --> 00:49:06,930
tourism you need a marketing presence and then you get to start making money and then ocean mining

676
00:49:06,930 --> 00:49:11,110
is probably next where you don't need any marketing presence but it takes longer to get the technology

677
00:49:11,110 --> 00:49:16,430
working and get the regulations in your favor but they kind of scale in that order right like you'll

678
00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:20,850
make some money from aquaculture you can make more money from tourism then you can make the most money

679
00:49:20,850 --> 00:49:26,310
from the the sea mining and then once you have a floating city established and it has those three

680
00:49:26,310 --> 00:49:31,170
income streams then the gates open to lots of income because then you can do the special economic

681
00:49:31,170 --> 00:49:36,330
zone stuff, right? Now you can say, I'm going to attract medical entrepreneurs. I'm going to attract

682
00:49:36,330 --> 00:49:40,910
IT entrepreneurs, tech guys. I'm going to bring in crypto. I'm going to bring in this and that

683
00:49:40,910 --> 00:49:44,350
and the other thing. And actually, a lot of people don't know this. There's another technology that

684
00:49:44,350 --> 00:49:49,430
we're not developing. Microsoft is developing this. And this is a very good technology. It's

685
00:49:49,430 --> 00:50:07,048
an underwater data center So right now people are looking into developing more data centers because AI is booming and so AI needs these data centers Microsoft has you might need to look this up for me but I don remember the name but it like a big underwater capsule that

686
00:50:07,048 --> 00:50:10,888
filled with nitrogen gas, no oxygen. That's important. I'll come back to that later.

687
00:50:11,388 --> 00:50:16,588
It hangs below a floating structure, some kind of pontoon that holds it just below the surface.

688
00:50:16,988 --> 00:50:22,108
And the temperature of the ocean makes sure that it always stays at a consistent temperature. So

689
00:50:22,108 --> 00:50:26,168
you're not paying for air conditioning. So that slashes your energy bill by like 60%.

690
00:50:26,728 --> 00:50:32,368
And then because the nitrogen is inside the container, that actually means that it's a

691
00:50:32,368 --> 00:50:38,108
less corrosive environment than normal air. And so you have servers break down less frequently.

692
00:50:38,468 --> 00:50:42,748
So as long as you have someone up top, potentially on a floating platform like a Seastead,

693
00:50:43,328 --> 00:50:47,788
who has wires running down, and he can manage the software side of running a data center,

694
00:50:47,788 --> 00:50:53,248
you can basically have a floating data center in the ocean that is cheaper to build cheaper to

695
00:50:53,248 --> 00:50:57,968
operate cheaper to build faster to deploy and breaks down less often and so that could be a

696
00:50:57,968 --> 00:51:04,968
very good thing for seasteads once they get to scale um what what level of design and build a

697
00:51:04,968 --> 00:51:09,688
build are they at is that like on just on paper at the moment i think they've built six of them

698
00:51:09,688 --> 00:51:14,408
already really yeah and deployed them yeah they're deployed they're functional right now where

699
00:51:14,408 --> 00:51:20,608
Yeah. Like, I mean, why aren't they? Did they contact you or do they just invent their own little platform and put them underneath?

700
00:51:20,968 --> 00:51:26,108
They're just using pontoons. They're just using like little aluminum pontoons that float to the surface. They're not using Seasteads.

701
00:51:26,528 --> 00:51:34,568
They're doing this not because Microsoft wants to push forward the Seasteading movement, but just because they realized that this is a fundamentally good business model.

702
00:51:34,568 --> 00:51:43,768
Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter whether they want to push forward the movement. It's whether or not you embrace it, because that's another way to monetize the movement.

703
00:51:43,768 --> 00:51:47,828
I mean, the movement needs an economic incentive model.

704
00:51:48,008 --> 00:51:48,688
It does.

705
00:51:49,328 --> 00:51:52,468
Unless Elon Musk wakes up tomorrow and goes,

706
00:51:52,568 --> 00:51:52,888
do you know what?

707
00:51:52,908 --> 00:51:53,568
I'm a seasteader.

708
00:51:53,608 --> 00:51:54,628
I'm not a spacesteader.

709
00:51:55,128 --> 00:51:56,588
I mean, if he did.

710
00:51:57,068 --> 00:51:57,688
I'd support it.

711
00:51:57,968 --> 00:51:58,548
Oh, yeah.

712
00:51:58,668 --> 00:52:00,808
I mean, it would be a better thing, in fact.

713
00:52:01,128 --> 00:52:01,348
Yes.

714
00:52:01,408 --> 00:52:02,588
He would actually probably,

715
00:52:02,868 --> 00:52:05,388
you would see more results quicker as well, I think.

716
00:52:05,648 --> 00:52:07,828
Which would be more exciting in a way

717
00:52:07,828 --> 00:52:10,288
because it's, I don't know.

718
00:52:10,288 --> 00:52:18,008
I think sometimes it's a bit of a misnomer to say we're going to Mars because he might be saying that in 50 years time.

719
00:52:18,268 --> 00:52:20,008
He might still be saying we're going to Mars.

720
00:52:20,448 --> 00:52:24,128
And by that point, it would have lost a bit of its kind of sheen, if you know what I mean.

721
00:52:24,368 --> 00:52:27,408
Yeah. And let's say he puts someone on Mars next year.

722
00:52:27,608 --> 00:52:29,688
Let's say 2026, first man on Mars.

723
00:52:29,788 --> 00:52:31,588
He doesn't just visit. He's going to stay there.

724
00:52:32,208 --> 00:52:32,768
What next?

725
00:52:34,368 --> 00:52:36,268
What is he exporting?

726
00:52:36,388 --> 00:52:36,968
What is he growing?

727
00:52:37,048 --> 00:52:37,688
What is he producing?

728
00:52:37,928 --> 00:52:38,908
How does he build a factory?

729
00:52:39,328 --> 00:52:40,728
How does he raise his kids there?

730
00:52:40,848 --> 00:52:43,728
How do you establish a city on Mars?

731
00:52:43,808 --> 00:52:47,448
Even if you've got one guy, what is the economic model?

732
00:52:47,708 --> 00:52:50,928
I mean, what are you mining on Mars that you can afford to ship back to Earth

733
00:52:50,928 --> 00:52:52,608
and have it still retain its value?

734
00:52:52,928 --> 00:52:54,408
Have they even talked about that?

735
00:52:54,868 --> 00:52:55,528
I don't know.

736
00:52:57,108 --> 00:53:00,508
Because, yeah, like you say, it's one thing to mine something there.

737
00:53:00,508 --> 00:53:04,388
It's another thing to wait 26 months or whatever.

738
00:53:04,668 --> 00:53:06,088
How long does it take to get to Mars?

739
00:53:06,148 --> 00:53:06,688
I can't even remember.

740
00:53:06,688 --> 00:53:09,348
is quite, it's longer than 26 months.

741
00:53:09,468 --> 00:53:13,168
But it's one of those, you know, I don't know.

742
00:53:13,228 --> 00:53:14,568
There's probably something on there.

743
00:53:14,648 --> 00:53:17,028
I mean, I would imagine if 20 years ago,

744
00:53:17,028 --> 00:53:20,828
you didn't realize you could take metal out of the ocean, right?

745
00:53:21,088 --> 00:53:21,468
Right.

746
00:53:21,668 --> 00:53:24,548
So who knows what's on the surface of Mars?

747
00:53:24,548 --> 00:53:25,768
There's probably some good stuff there.

748
00:53:25,868 --> 00:53:27,428
I would argue it's probably a better idea

749
00:53:27,428 --> 00:53:30,988
to establish an asteroid colony than a Mars city.

750
00:53:31,108 --> 00:53:32,788
But that's even further away.

751
00:53:33,568 --> 00:53:34,188
Is it?

752
00:53:34,328 --> 00:53:36,548
In terms of distance, not necessarily in terms of time.

753
00:53:36,548 --> 00:53:44,168
Like I said, I think an asteroid is an easier thing to establish a colony in than to do it on the surface of Mars because it's low gravity.

754
00:53:44,408 --> 00:53:50,188
So to ship it, you know, firstly, there's a lot more exposed platinum, gold, palladium, stuff like that.

755
00:53:50,708 --> 00:53:55,028
Better things in the asteroid belt, they're easier to access and easier to ship back to Earth.

756
00:53:55,228 --> 00:53:58,648
So in that sense, just go for the asteroid colony.

757
00:54:01,388 --> 00:54:04,748
I love the fact people sit around talking about things like this.

758
00:54:04,748 --> 00:54:25,668
Well, it is pretty crazy, isn't it? It is pretty crazy. So yeah, that's, that's good. I'm glad I'm, I'm glad I'm speaking to you because I, I, you've just filled in one of the gaps in my seasteading repertoire, which is why would people go to the interim places between personal seasteads and proper cities?

759
00:54:25,668 --> 00:54:34,468
I've not I'm not an advocate really for the idea that people are going to park all their boats close to each other out at sea.

760
00:54:34,828 --> 00:54:37,348
I don't think so. I don't know what you think about that.

761
00:54:37,348 --> 00:54:48,708
Because they do it in ports, but it's a different thing at sea unless you build some ginormous concrete floating harbor type thing.

762
00:54:49,848 --> 00:54:53,908
You know, I think I don't know if I was to say I've done I've sailed.

763
00:54:53,908 --> 00:55:00,288
I've everyone knows this. I don't really enjoy it. Okay. You know, but, but the good, but staying

764
00:55:00,288 --> 00:55:05,068
on a boat is one thing. Staying on a boat in a port where you can pop out to a restaurant and then

765
00:55:05,068 --> 00:55:12,128
come back and then go to bed. That suits me. But actually doing that at sea wouldn't. All right.

766
00:55:12,128 --> 00:55:18,268
I'm not a seafarer. So, so maybe I've got, you know, a bias, but what do you think? Like,

767
00:55:18,288 --> 00:55:23,588
is that going to happen? I think that, um, you've already interviewed Mason LaShina. Yes.

768
00:55:23,588 --> 00:55:26,388
Yeah, and so his idea, he talked about this with the Libra Orcs, didn't he?

769
00:55:26,468 --> 00:55:26,748
Yes.

770
00:55:27,008 --> 00:55:27,228
Right.

771
00:55:27,548 --> 00:55:30,868
So his idea is, and I think it's a very feasible idea, actually.

772
00:55:31,868 --> 00:55:36,188
There's a few reasons you might want to have a yacht flotilla, and those are sometimes called flotillas.

773
00:55:36,608 --> 00:55:41,908
So you might want to have a flotilla for collective defense from pirates, and it does work.

774
00:55:41,968 --> 00:55:46,048
If you have like 10 yachts together in one location, you're not going to be attacked by pirates at that point.

775
00:55:46,108 --> 00:55:46,828
There's too many of you.

776
00:55:46,828 --> 00:55:52,208
You might want to do it in case one of the yachts breaks down to share fuel, to share resources,

777
00:55:52,208 --> 00:55:57,208
or if you had 100 yachts together or 1,000 yachts together, it's very feasible that one guy could

778
00:55:57,208 --> 00:56:02,308
take his yacht and say, mine is now a restaurant, mine is now a grocery store, and you just board

779
00:56:02,308 --> 00:56:06,588
another yacht and you go on board and you buy your groceries and you have dinner. And so it could act

780
00:56:06,588 --> 00:56:12,148
kind of functionally like a port. Like you say, it'd be a little bit more shaky, there'd be some

781
00:56:12,148 --> 00:56:16,148
more waving around, but I think there'd be enough places to go that you wouldn't really feel

782
00:56:16,148 --> 00:56:23,008
restricted. So I think that it's very feasible. One downside is if it costs a million dollars to

783
00:56:23,008 --> 00:56:27,288
buy a yacht, it's going to cost a million dollars a year in maintenance to keep it operational

784
00:56:27,288 --> 00:56:33,328
because yachts are really expensive. And the point of Seasteads, proper Seasteads, is that they should

785
00:56:33,328 --> 00:56:41,888
be a much, much more cheap and lower maintenance, way lower maintenance. You know, just the upfront

786
00:56:41,888 --> 00:56:44,788
cost is not even the most important. The maintenance is the most important.

787
00:56:45,428 --> 00:56:49,028
But the Lieberarchs, Mason's Lieberarchs, they are low maintenance, aren't they?

788
00:56:49,128 --> 00:56:49,708
They are low maintenance.

789
00:56:49,908 --> 00:56:50,748
It's a good design.

790
00:56:50,888 --> 00:56:54,968
It's probably, in terms of a yacht, I'd say it's the best design out there, especially for seasteading.

791
00:56:55,888 --> 00:57:01,568
Pound for pound or dollar for dollar, I'd say the Lieberarchs is the best yacht that you could buy.

792
00:57:02,068 --> 00:57:05,088
And it's to the point where, I think it is a seastead.

793
00:57:05,148 --> 00:57:08,028
It really is a proper seastead because it has a few things that are really important.

794
00:57:08,028 --> 00:57:12,668
One, it's fully solar powered, which means that you don't even need gas.

795
00:57:12,768 --> 00:57:14,048
You don't need fuel to get where you're going.

796
00:57:14,048 --> 00:57:20,868
you're not going to run a run a fuel anytime soon to its um i i think that's the biggest thing and

797
00:57:20,868 --> 00:57:24,988
two is that it is lower maintenance i could go into because we're involved in helping mason with

798
00:57:24,988 --> 00:57:30,348
the design of the libra arcs and you know there's without going to a lot of detail there's less

799
00:57:30,348 --> 00:57:35,308
things that can break down well what i liked about the libra the libra arcs is once again

800
00:57:35,308 --> 00:57:42,768
it's it has a land-based counterpart that is a massive market which is basically like the rv market

801
00:57:42,768 --> 00:57:51,108
right RVs on land are huge business people love them they're a part of culture that people live

802
00:57:51,108 --> 00:57:56,668
in them they do you know and that was a new one for me hearing him say look you know you want to

803
00:57:56,668 --> 00:58:01,228
go live in in Paris for a bit then you're going to pop over to there and then you're going to go

804
00:58:01,228 --> 00:58:05,348
down this the Danube and you're going to stay there and then you might pop over to the Seychelles

805
00:58:05,348 --> 00:58:11,188
or you know and that makes once again you know seasteading for me is all about making it

806
00:58:11,188 --> 00:58:27,406
make sense because because whilst I want floating islands that just most people when you say things like that go don be stupid don be ridiculous Even though I know I pretty sure I say I bet on the fact that it going to happen

807
00:58:28,086 --> 00:58:30,866
It's much easier, you know, cruise ships the same.

808
00:58:31,186 --> 00:58:36,406
I can explain a cruise ship to someone and then say, but what's the difference between a cruise ship and a floating island?

809
00:58:36,546 --> 00:58:38,346
Apart from it, it'll look a bit different.

810
00:58:38,826 --> 00:58:43,506
It won't look like a toy with all these little slides and swings and all this kind of stuff on it.

811
00:58:43,506 --> 00:58:50,786
it just might look different. And the same goes for Mason's Liberax. I think it's great because

812
00:58:50,786 --> 00:58:58,726
all of a sudden I understand it. I'm like, okay, it's a floating RV basically, you know, and I've,

813
00:58:58,786 --> 00:59:03,946
I've had, I'm an RV owner, so I understand the freedom you get from it. And the only thing I

814
00:59:03,946 --> 00:59:10,866
would think with a Liberax is, well, am I going to be able to sail that thing? And according to

815
00:59:10,866 --> 00:59:15,486
mason anyway it's going to be something that's a lot easier to sail than your average yacht or

816
00:59:15,486 --> 00:59:20,546
ship or something yes definitely it requires less maintenance it requires much less fuel i mean

817
00:59:20,546 --> 00:59:25,486
another thing with with yachts is the fuel cost is enormous so the libra arcs basically solves

818
00:59:25,486 --> 00:59:29,566
that so if you're looking for again the best bang for your buck the libra arcs is the best

819
00:59:29,566 --> 00:59:34,786
yacht in the market hands down um going back to what you said about about cruise ships i would

820
00:59:34,786 --> 00:59:40,106
argue something that cruise ships already are seasteads can i talk about flagging for a second

821
00:59:40,106 --> 00:59:47,706
Sure. Yeah. Okay. So why is Prospera a fundamentally good place to do business?

822
00:59:48,646 --> 00:59:57,306
It's because you can, and I guess I don't, you know, to verify that what I'm saying is accurate,

823
00:59:57,726 --> 01:00:02,426
they have the ability to, someone can say, this is the regulation I want to abide by. They can say

824
01:00:02,426 --> 01:00:07,226
in this country, they have this type of regulation. I propose that I should follow this regulation,

825
01:00:07,226 --> 01:00:23,786
So that's sometimes called jurisdictional arbitrage. You're taking different jurisdictions. You're saying, I want to follow this law. I want to do it in this way. So with a cruise ship, they can actually practice jurisdictional arbitrage for the, you know, one ship flies one flag.

826
01:00:24,106 --> 01:00:31,126
You can fly the flag of the Bahamas, the flag of Panama, the flag of Mongolia, but that's not a flag that's taken seriously.

827
01:00:31,126 --> 01:00:39,466
If you fly the Mongolian flag, you have the benefit of no one will ever try to enforce laws on your seastead because Mongolia doesn't care about boats.

828
01:00:39,606 --> 01:00:41,446
You can fly their flag and they just won't, you know.

829
01:00:41,586 --> 01:00:42,526
They've got no coastline.

830
01:00:42,586 --> 01:00:43,466
They've got no coastline.

831
01:00:43,526 --> 01:00:46,126
They've got a bit of Lake Baikal.

832
01:00:46,306 --> 01:00:46,546
Yeah.

833
01:00:46,686 --> 01:00:47,166
That's kind of.

834
01:00:47,586 --> 01:00:47,866
Right.

835
01:00:47,966 --> 01:00:52,426
But also, if you try to go into port with a cruise ship that's flagged under Mongolia, they won't even let you in the port.

836
01:00:52,726 --> 01:00:53,226
Really, won't they?

837
01:00:53,226 --> 01:01:07,926
No, they won't. They don't take you seriously. So maybe some crazy guy out there wants to fly the flag of Mongolia on a seastead, but I guess I have to disavow that for now. But anyways, you can do jurisdictional arbitrage in the ocean. The system already exists through flagging registries.

838
01:01:07,926 --> 01:01:13,866
So the idea here, and this again goes back to why I say a seasteading city would be composed of multiple districts.

839
01:01:14,206 --> 01:01:19,146
Because if you have 10 districts to your city, they can be under 10 different laws.

840
01:01:19,486 --> 01:01:25,386
Imagine that one is the business district and it's under, you know, it flies like if Prospera had a flag, it could fly the flag of Prospera.

841
01:01:25,446 --> 01:01:29,386
It's basically Prospera 2.0 and you can do business as if you're in Prospera.

842
01:01:29,506 --> 01:01:33,486
Then you have one that flies the flag of Panama and one that flies the flag of the United States.

843
01:01:33,486 --> 01:01:38,086
and nobody's going to, you know, pirates aren't going to attack the United States because that

844
01:01:38,086 --> 01:01:41,906
would call in the United States Navy. So now you've got this massive military defense district

845
01:01:41,906 --> 01:01:46,726
that no one's going to attack it. So you can use that as a safe haven. Every flag can bring a

846
01:01:46,726 --> 01:01:51,886
different benefit to a floating city. So you can basically take the type of jurisdictional

847
01:01:51,886 --> 01:01:56,406
arbitrage that cruise ships can already do. And the fact they can do it is why I'd consider them

848
01:01:56,406 --> 01:02:02,026
seasteads to some degree. But you can basically crank that up to an 11 and say, I want to have

849
01:02:02,026 --> 01:02:06,826
all of these different laws apply. I want to go to this restaurant in Panama and I want to go back

850
01:02:06,826 --> 01:02:12,026
to my house in America and then I want to go to the shopping mall in Singapore. And they're all

851
01:02:12,026 --> 01:02:17,786
within like, you know, walking distance of each other. It's a very interesting idea.

852
01:02:18,986 --> 01:02:24,466
I'll need to sit on that one for a few days to work out what the implications of that would be,

853
01:02:24,546 --> 01:02:30,946
because the difference with a cruise ship is you don't have different countries bumping up against

854
01:02:30,946 --> 01:02:36,446
each other like that unless of course you're entering the heart the port of a foreign country

855
01:02:36,446 --> 01:02:43,286
but that's slightly different that that's kind of understandable and also whilst on paper that makes

856
01:02:43,286 --> 01:02:50,866
total sense and it's like it's like a work a great workaround right things like that always make

857
01:02:50,866 --> 01:02:56,746
you know people you know the wrong kind of people interested in what you're doing because you're you

858
01:02:56,746 --> 01:03:01,206
look at that and you go oh hold on a minute hold on a minute you're just scamming the system here

859
01:03:01,206 --> 01:03:07,106
now like i know that cruise shipping is kind of scamming the system a bit it's it's using maritime

860
01:03:07,106 --> 01:03:12,146
law to basically create private floating cities and cruise wherever you want without getting

861
01:03:12,146 --> 01:03:16,586
attacked by anyone you know but that's a good thing yeah exactly that is a good thing but this

862
01:03:16,586 --> 01:03:23,786
what you've just described whilst it's true and and could work on paper it might be a bridge too

863
01:03:23,786 --> 01:03:27,806
far. It might be a little bit too far, you know. Describe what you think would go wrong.

864
01:03:27,806 --> 01:03:36,186
Well, firstly, the say you said if you had an American district, you could have the U.S.

865
01:03:36,266 --> 01:03:41,366
Navy come and help you or somebody. As long as the president is like, yeah, I feel.

866
01:03:41,686 --> 01:03:45,766
Exactly. So you need the backing, first of all. And they'll say, well, hold on a minute.

867
01:03:45,766 --> 01:03:48,326
you're right next to

868
01:03:48,326 --> 01:03:50,546
Panama and Panama

869
01:03:50,546 --> 01:03:52,166
we don't trust Panama

870
01:03:52,166 --> 01:03:53,786
Maduro or not

871
01:03:53,786 --> 01:03:54,786
Venezuela

872
01:03:54,786 --> 01:03:57,466
can you have the flag of Venezuela?

873
01:03:58,106 --> 01:03:59,006
no they wouldn't be on there

874
01:03:59,006 --> 01:04:00,366
stick to Panama

875
01:04:00,366 --> 01:04:04,626
but I suppose you would have to think

876
01:04:04,626 --> 01:04:06,326
geopolitically as well when you

877
01:04:06,326 --> 01:04:08,286
created these things but

878
01:04:08,286 --> 01:04:10,026
I don't know I just think

879
01:04:10,026 --> 01:04:12,606
you know what it's like

880
01:04:12,606 --> 01:04:14,526
when you draw attention

881
01:04:14,526 --> 01:04:17,766
to something and then people get interested in it and then they go, hold a minute, we're

882
01:04:17,766 --> 01:04:18,626
going to stop that now.

883
01:04:19,086 --> 01:04:28,926
I think a lot of what goes on with cruise ships is not acknowledged by a lot of people

884
01:04:28,926 --> 01:04:31,046
because it's really none of their business in a way.

885
01:04:31,546 --> 01:04:33,826
And it goes, it's been going like that for a long time.

886
01:04:33,966 --> 01:04:34,846
It's over the horizon.

887
01:04:35,066 --> 01:04:36,066
It's out of sight, out of mind.

888
01:04:36,066 --> 01:04:36,986
Out of sight, out of mind.

889
01:04:37,046 --> 01:04:39,666
But when you actually look at it, it's incredible.

890
01:04:39,666 --> 01:04:47,146
from a governance perspective what cruise ships are doing is mind-blowing and if people in power

891
01:04:47,146 --> 01:04:52,146
knew they'd be like oh wait a minute you know we're missing a trick here these guys can pretty

892
01:04:52,146 --> 01:04:57,546
much you know they can choose this and they can do that and you know in the same sense that if

893
01:04:57,546 --> 01:05:05,926
you're a cruise liner and you said right i am just gonna do um cheap medical treatments on my

894
01:05:05,926 --> 01:05:11,646
cruise ship and I'm going to park it right in the middle of some port in a foreign country.

895
01:05:12,186 --> 01:05:13,086
Well, you can't do it in port.

896
01:05:13,486 --> 01:05:13,826
Right.

897
01:05:13,966 --> 01:05:19,026
You can't do it in territorial waters. You have to be at least 12 nautical miles minimum distance

898
01:05:19,026 --> 01:05:20,366
from any land.

899
01:05:21,626 --> 01:05:25,006
But on a cruise ship, is that still true?

900
01:05:25,146 --> 01:05:26,146
That's still true on a cruise ship.

901
01:05:26,206 --> 01:05:30,386
Oh, right. So you can do medical tourism on a cruise ship now, as long as you're 12 miles out.

902
01:05:31,086 --> 01:05:35,046
Theoretically, I don't know of any cruise ships that are doing this at the moment.

903
01:05:35,046 --> 01:05:36,786
probably because of what you're saying.

904
01:05:36,846 --> 01:05:38,486
They don't want to attract attention to themselves.

905
01:05:38,586 --> 01:05:39,286
Yes, but that's what I mean.

906
01:05:39,506 --> 01:05:43,346
But they could not do it if they were in port, to be clear.

907
01:05:43,586 --> 01:05:45,846
They could not do it if they were a mile outside of port.

908
01:05:45,946 --> 01:05:47,946
They would need to be at least 12 miles outside port.

909
01:05:47,946 --> 01:05:48,766
But that's what I mean.

910
01:05:48,886 --> 01:05:53,286
So drawing attention to yourself then brings in the wrong eyes

911
01:05:53,286 --> 01:05:54,866
who look at the whole thing and go,

912
01:05:55,026 --> 01:05:58,206
wow, we really need to control this a bit more

913
01:05:58,206 --> 01:06:02,526
because these guys are, you know, they're in charge of themselves.

914
01:06:02,926 --> 01:06:04,786
They're just, there's a free market out there.

915
01:06:05,046 --> 01:06:09,146
Even the regulations are like self-enforcing.

916
01:06:10,266 --> 01:06:11,066
It's great.

917
01:06:11,226 --> 01:06:13,086
I mean, it's what we want.

918
01:06:13,686 --> 01:06:16,966
But when you see what we want on land, they don't like it.

919
01:06:17,386 --> 01:06:17,486
Right.

920
01:06:17,726 --> 01:06:20,126
So why would they like it out at sea, if you see what I mean?

921
01:06:20,566 --> 01:06:21,406
I don't think that.

922
01:06:22,806 --> 01:06:23,526
Who is they?

923
01:06:23,746 --> 01:06:24,426
They are.

924
01:06:24,666 --> 01:06:25,606
They is bureaucrats.

925
01:06:25,606 --> 01:06:29,366
In the case of Prospera, they is the Honduran government.

926
01:06:29,966 --> 01:06:31,366
Well, it's not the Honduran government.

927
01:06:31,506 --> 01:06:33,726
It's the, what is it, the Libre Party.

928
01:06:33,786 --> 01:06:34,966
All right, the left-wing government.

929
01:06:35,046 --> 01:06:37,326
the left wing governments.

930
01:06:37,326 --> 01:06:39,966
So let's say that, you know,

931
01:06:39,984 --> 01:07:05,784
So let's take two hypothetical examples. One is I have a seastead. It's off the coast of Venezuela. The Venezuelan government sees the seastead. They see all the freedom. They see all the stuff that we have. What are they going to do? Are they going to attack the district that flies the American flag that legally under international law would be the same as attacking an American vessel? I don't think so.

932
01:07:05,784 --> 01:07:14,764
I thought of something. What's the incentive for America to allow the Seastead to flag under their jurisdiction?

933
01:07:15,664 --> 01:07:23,464
Okay, so what is the incentive to allow it to is that the rules are already in place that if you pay the fee, you can flag with the American flag.

934
01:07:23,564 --> 01:07:26,304
As long as you meet the qualifications, you're allowed to.

935
01:07:26,624 --> 01:07:33,364
What is the reason that they would actually militarily defend a Seastead? Pride. The reason would be pride.

936
01:07:33,364 --> 01:07:55,084
Okay. I think probably because it's a bit left field, the whole idea of floating islands and seasteads is so left field. I think that would be a tall order. It's one thing to protect a US citizen on their ship. It's another thing. I don't know. Obviously, at some point in the future, absolutely, that could easily happen.

937
01:07:55,084 --> 01:08:02,804
But thinking about it in the first instance, it's so like crazy, isn't it?

938
01:08:03,444 --> 01:08:06,104
Not to me, but I've been doing this for a while.

939
01:08:06,424 --> 01:08:06,904
Yeah, yeah.

940
01:08:07,064 --> 01:08:08,224
Well, not to me either.

941
01:08:08,304 --> 01:08:15,744
I'm thinking I'm trying to be a normie here and go, what the hell are those guys doing out there?

942
01:08:15,744 --> 01:08:29,384
They've created an island made up of all these different countries and they've used each they've used the different countries to sort of like protect the thing.

943
01:08:29,544 --> 01:08:34,404
I mean, it's a it's a bold sort of five day five D chess move, chess move, isn't it?

944
01:08:34,524 --> 01:08:37,584
Because arguably you could do just one big Prospera.

945
01:08:37,584 --> 01:08:46,604
So you fly Prospera's flag once they've got a flag, say, and then you just choose OACD regulations from around the world anyway, because they can do that in Prospera.

946
01:08:46,724 --> 01:08:55,344
I like the idea, though, because then you can leverage the best parts of the countries that you're involved in.

947
01:08:55,344 --> 01:09:11,444
But then something that Joe always says to me is if you flag under so-and-so, like say you're flagged under Panama, but you're in the Seychelles or you're in Tonga Islands or something and something goes wrong.

948
01:09:11,964 --> 01:09:15,984
The Panamanian, is that what you say?

949
01:09:16,144 --> 01:09:16,544
Panamanian?

950
01:09:16,724 --> 01:09:17,024
Panamanian.

951
01:09:17,024 --> 01:09:19,964
Yeah, the Panamanian Navy aren't going to come out and save you, are they?

952
01:09:20,144 --> 01:09:20,364
No.

953
01:09:20,484 --> 01:09:21,344
It's too far away.

954
01:09:21,344 --> 01:09:28,324
so there is that aspect that means that it could be a bit of a farce as well well so part of it is

955
01:09:28,324 --> 01:09:33,024
about legitimacy part of it is about saying you know a leftist government saying these people are

956
01:09:33,024 --> 01:09:37,784
pirates we need to militarily attack them and the seasteaders being able to see no look we have a

957
01:09:37,784 --> 01:09:41,544
legitimate flag here's our permit here's our flag we're under panama so you can't attack us right

958
01:09:41,544 --> 01:09:45,704
part of it is like here's my excuse here's my permit i get to show you my permit that says i'm

959
01:09:45,704 --> 01:09:51,324
allowed to do this. That's one part. Another part is, so let's go back to Tonga. If Tonga

960
01:09:51,324 --> 01:09:56,164
militarily attacks a vessel, which is flagged under Panama, that's punishable under international

961
01:09:56,164 --> 01:10:02,384
law. The Panamanian Navy will not step in. Once again, there's a chance that the American Navy

962
01:10:02,384 --> 01:10:07,604
could. There's no guarantee because America's allies with Panama. So Panama could call America,

963
01:10:07,604 --> 01:10:11,604
hey, our vessel's been attacked, and America could step in. Another thing is,

964
01:10:11,604 --> 01:10:23,304
So, feasibly, you could probably just sue Tonga in an international court and have their foreign assets seized and say, you guys violently attacked a registered vessel.

965
01:10:23,644 --> 01:10:24,644
You can't do that.

966
01:10:24,904 --> 01:10:28,824
And you confiscate, you know, $500 million in their assets overseas.

967
01:10:29,604 --> 01:10:32,484
Yeah, I have to say, Mitchell, it's a good idea.

968
01:10:33,064 --> 01:10:35,044
Obviously, you think about this stuff all the time.

969
01:10:35,044 --> 01:10:37,944
So, things like this are floating around in your brain.

970
01:10:38,704 --> 01:10:38,824
Yes.

971
01:10:39,824 --> 01:10:40,944
I'm not trying to crash.

972
01:10:40,944 --> 01:11:06,844
No, I didn't mean it. But they are. And there's probably a thousand more as well. But because it's a novel idea to me, I've got to think about it because I'm thinking about whenever you put lots of different countries together. Mind you, that's not true. Antarctica. Antarctica has shared places, doesn't it? And they, as far as I know, they don't have a huge amount of conflict.

973
01:11:07,344 --> 01:11:12,024
No, it's out of sight. It's out of mind, right? Where does conflict come from? It comes from

974
01:11:12,024 --> 01:11:16,404
politicians causing conflict. It comes from government saying, I'm going to fight you for

975
01:11:16,404 --> 01:11:22,744
your resources. There's no resources that are easily accessible in Antarctica right now. So

976
01:11:22,744 --> 01:11:28,264
there's no need for any conflict. If you can put your seastead not 13 miles out, but 130 miles out,

977
01:11:28,264 --> 01:11:46,676
which is what I would advocate for or 230 miles out then ideally it wouldn be a politically contentious thing to exist because it just too hard to physically get there It too much trouble to invade so they won bother invading At the end of the day your best defense is not the flag that you fly but how far away can you get from Venezuela

978
01:11:46,676 --> 01:11:49,036
How far away can I be from Beijing?

979
01:11:49,556 --> 01:11:52,076
A big factor here is also distance.

980
01:11:52,336 --> 01:11:53,976
The ocean is so vast.

981
01:11:54,396 --> 01:11:55,956
The distances are so vast.

982
01:11:55,956 --> 01:12:02,576
what is the reason that China has effectively taken over Hong Kong and now they want to take

983
01:12:02,576 --> 01:12:06,736
over Taiwan, but it would be so much easier to take over Tonga. It's basically defenseless.

984
01:12:07,236 --> 01:12:10,596
Tonga is really far away. Distance is a great defense.

985
01:12:11,816 --> 01:12:19,116
So do you think one day, I'm going to keep pushing you because I want this. No, but do you think one

986
01:12:19,116 --> 01:12:27,296
day 260 miles off the coast of somewhere i will see in the distance something that looks exactly

987
01:12:27,296 --> 01:12:33,816
like an island exactly like an island so so so think about it what the qualities of an island

988
01:12:33,816 --> 01:12:39,696
that you like a beach beaches something in the middle trees something taller in the middle

989
01:12:39,696 --> 01:12:47,076
you know like or or sort of yeah trees around you know is that do you think that will be a reality

990
01:12:47,076 --> 01:12:56,496
Or do you think by their nature, seasteads will have, will have to evolve as a, as a kind of distinct organism kind of thing, you know, like a distinct organism.

991
01:12:56,496 --> 01:13:01,956
As in, are we going to mimic, cause like, are we going to mimic, um, what we already know and love?

992
01:13:02,636 --> 01:13:03,376
No, no, no.

993
01:13:03,436 --> 01:13:04,136
About islands.

994
01:13:04,276 --> 01:13:15,476
I mean, so, so, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm being a normie again and the normie side of me doesn't want to go and live on an oil rig for fun.

995
01:13:15,696 --> 01:13:16,136
Right.

996
01:13:16,136 --> 01:13:19,176
I want to go and live on a tropical beach for fun.

997
01:13:19,476 --> 01:13:24,016
So is it going to look like a tropical island or is it going to look like an oil rig?

998
01:13:24,496 --> 01:13:30,076
I don't, again, I don't want to disappoint you, but do you want me to give the real answer?

999
01:13:30,176 --> 01:13:30,616
Yeah, of course I do.

1000
01:13:30,716 --> 01:13:31,016
Okay.

1001
01:13:31,176 --> 01:13:32,376
So the real answer is this.

1002
01:13:33,356 --> 01:13:39,256
Technology generally evolves in whatever way is most efficient.

1003
01:13:40,776 --> 01:13:44,856
That, usually that doesn't mean whatever is the prettiest, right?

1004
01:13:44,856 --> 01:13:50,776
The most productive factory is not the most beautiful factory.

1005
01:13:51,416 --> 01:13:57,296
But that being said, again, you have to realize there can be residential districts, commercial districts, and industrial districts.

1006
01:13:57,736 --> 01:14:04,556
Will there be a residential district that looks like a floating island with tropical beaches and houses kind of going up towards this big hill in the center?

1007
01:14:04,956 --> 01:14:05,416
Absolutely.

1008
01:14:05,696 --> 01:14:10,296
When we have enough seasteads, people will make a district that looks just like that.

1009
01:14:10,476 --> 01:14:13,776
But it's not the most cost-effective way to build a seastead.

1010
01:14:13,776 --> 01:14:19,456
that it's not the most stable way to build for storms. It's not the most, you know, it would be

1011
01:14:19,456 --> 01:14:24,916
something for the middle class. It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be like the industrial, the basic,

1012
01:14:24,996 --> 01:14:31,656
you know, bare bones model. The bare bones model is going to look however, whatever the most

1013
01:14:31,656 --> 01:14:37,076
efficient hull design provides for. So it will look, I would say, effectively distinct. There

1014
01:14:37,076 --> 01:14:41,916
will probably be a seastead aesthetic. You'll probably look over and say, that looks like a

1015
01:14:41,916 --> 01:14:46,256
tropical island and it has its own aesthetic. That looks like a cruise ship and a cruise ship has

1016
01:14:46,256 --> 01:14:51,036
its own aesthetic. That looks like an oil rig and that has a very industrial aesthetic and that

1017
01:14:51,036 --> 01:14:56,196
looks like a seastead. And future seasteads will not look like oil rigs, but they will not look

1018
01:14:56,196 --> 01:14:59,496
like cruise ships and they will not look like islands. They will look like something completely

1019
01:14:59,496 --> 01:15:05,756
distinct. Even the ginormous ones? Even the ginormous ones will probably not look like oil

1020
01:15:05,756 --> 01:15:11,556
rigs because an oil rig was designed to be an oil rig. It will have a fundamentally unique

1021
01:15:11,556 --> 01:15:15,736
characteristic. And I think that's a good thing that seasteads will look fundamentally different.

1022
01:15:16,056 --> 01:15:19,456
And there will be different types of seasteads that fulfill different purposes, and they will

1023
01:15:19,456 --> 01:15:23,056
all look fundamentally distinct. Again, the residential ones and the commercial ones and

1024
01:15:23,056 --> 01:15:28,176
industrial ones will all look fundamentally distinct. And especially the residential ones,

1025
01:15:28,256 --> 01:15:31,556
I expect they're going to look really pretty. And some of them will look like tropical islands,

1026
01:15:31,556 --> 01:15:34,196
but I think most of them will have a different aesthetic.

1027
01:15:34,436 --> 01:15:38,156
The good thing, Mitchell, is that you're young enough to probably see this thing through to

1028
01:15:38,156 --> 01:15:40,336
quite an advanced stage.

1029
01:15:40,536 --> 01:15:41,056
I hope so.

1030
01:15:41,256 --> 01:15:42,836
No, I mean, it's true.

1031
01:15:42,976 --> 01:15:44,316
I mean, I'm, you know, I'm just thinking,

1032
01:15:45,876 --> 01:15:47,636
it's, I don't know,

1033
01:15:47,776 --> 01:15:50,496
it seems to me it's quite an unusual business

1034
01:15:50,496 --> 01:15:52,316
for someone quite young to get into

1035
01:15:52,316 --> 01:15:54,596
because it's very weird and innovative

1036
01:15:54,596 --> 01:15:57,276
and you've, you know, you've got to,

1037
01:15:57,396 --> 01:15:59,636
you've got to really know that you want it.

1038
01:16:00,676 --> 01:16:01,276
I mean, you really,

1039
01:16:01,436 --> 01:16:03,556
that's why I really like Grant.

1040
01:16:03,936 --> 01:16:05,656
Grant's got an insane mind.

1041
01:16:05,656 --> 01:16:13,976
Grant actually thinks that it's a good idea to create space age looking pods that you live in on the ocean.

1042
01:16:14,476 --> 01:16:19,236
And so he built one. That's insane. And now he's sold some to whatever.

1043
01:16:19,796 --> 01:16:21,656
Is it the Seychelles or someone? Maldives.

1044
01:16:21,776 --> 01:16:24,856
Maldives. Yeah. I mean, now it's a business.

1045
01:16:25,016 --> 01:16:28,696
Who sits down and goes, I know I'm going to make this thing for five million dollars.

1046
01:16:29,576 --> 01:16:43,548
And it going to he probably end up making a ton of money as well that a proper entrepreneur a proper entrepreneur I think you a proper entrepreneur because this is crazy thoughts you know floating cities

1047
01:16:44,268 --> 01:16:47,268
But it all makes sense to me on a small scale.

1048
01:16:47,688 --> 01:16:53,408
But also the hardest thing I should imagine is you have to do it in stages.

1049
01:16:54,108 --> 01:16:57,768
You can't go from nought to floating city.

1050
01:16:58,188 --> 01:16:58,668
Yes.

1051
01:16:58,668 --> 01:17:09,288
And if you want a floating city, you're going to have to sit tight on your hands for a very long time, messing around with little things and fish farms and then building up to this.

1052
01:17:09,428 --> 01:17:11,448
And then right now, let's include this.

1053
01:17:11,588 --> 01:17:15,968
And then, you know, and that's a long term vision, mate.

1054
01:17:16,108 --> 01:17:17,408
I've got a lot of respect for that.

1055
01:17:17,668 --> 01:17:17,788
Thank you.

1056
01:17:17,868 --> 01:17:19,168
Rome wasn't built in a day.

1057
01:17:19,648 --> 01:17:20,848
Venice wasn't built in a day.

1058
01:17:21,128 --> 01:17:24,048
And no seasteading city will be built in a day.

1059
01:17:24,428 --> 01:17:24,688
Yeah.

1060
01:17:24,948 --> 01:17:27,728
And Venice was one of the most successful cities of all time.

1061
01:17:27,728 --> 01:17:34,408
I'm always saying this. It was built on the sea. There was nothing there. It was a marsh bog, marshland sea, wasn't it?

1062
01:17:34,568 --> 01:17:44,408
Yeah, absolutely. It was, I mean, I think, I think some of the land, some of the land they initially built on, it was above water at low tide and then fully submerged to high tide. And they chose to live there.

1063
01:17:44,408 --> 01:17:51,588
But I mean, it's the perfect model for seasteading because they did it to get away from everything, didn't they?

1064
01:17:51,748 --> 01:17:59,448
And it made it, one of the reasons it lasted for so long as a hub was because it was hard to attack because of where it was.

1065
01:17:59,988 --> 01:18:02,588
I mean, which is exactly what seasteads are as well.

1066
01:18:03,288 --> 01:18:04,288
That's what I'm saying.

1067
01:18:04,408 --> 01:18:07,728
They had like a mile of water to defend themselves in the medieval era.

1068
01:18:07,828 --> 01:18:13,648
Now, if you had 130 miles of water, 230 miles, I think that's still a very decent defense, even in the modern era.

1069
01:18:13,648 --> 01:18:25,528
Do you think that the powers that be, I don't know who that is, but just let's call them the powers that be, are going to pay a lot of interest in Seasteads when they start getting that big?

1070
01:18:26,008 --> 01:18:27,588
Is it going to be something that bothers them?

1071
01:18:27,648 --> 01:18:32,308
Or is it going to be like you say, well, it's nothing to do with us because it's not in our jurisdiction?

1072
01:18:33,448 --> 01:18:39,308
I think that I want to be careful what I say here.

1073
01:18:39,388 --> 01:18:40,108
Can I speculate?

1074
01:18:40,468 --> 01:18:40,948
Of course you can.

1075
01:18:41,048 --> 01:18:41,448
Yeah, of course.

1076
01:18:41,448 --> 01:18:41,668
Okay.

1077
01:18:41,948 --> 01:18:42,988
Just say you're speculating.

1078
01:18:43,648 --> 01:18:49,048
I would speculate that Paris is going to be hostile.

1079
01:18:50,008 --> 01:19:00,808
I don't think that the governments that tend to rise to power in France is going to be amenable to seasteads.

1080
01:19:01,388 --> 01:19:02,288
Why France in particular?

1081
01:19:03,528 --> 01:19:07,648
Well, so a while back, I was talking to someone at the conference a couple of days ago.

1082
01:19:07,648 --> 01:19:12,848
and the whatever i don't know what the name of like the french version like mi6 or masada or

1083
01:19:12,848 --> 01:19:18,368
some kind of like french intelligence agency they wrote um and she said she's gonna send me

1084
01:19:18,368 --> 01:19:22,228
the copy of this it's in french so i have to translate it but she's telling me they wrote a

1085
01:19:22,228 --> 01:19:28,768
paper or a book decades ago on all of the things in the future that could go wrong and could bring

1086
01:19:28,768 --> 01:19:34,128
about human calamity or the end of civilization and one of the things that the french intelligence

1087
01:19:34,128 --> 01:19:36,768
agency wrote about

1088
01:19:36,768 --> 01:19:39,088
as one of the biggest dangers

1089
01:19:39,088 --> 01:19:40,668
for the modern world

1090
01:19:40,668 --> 01:19:41,488
was seasteading.

1091
01:19:41,848 --> 01:19:42,248
No.

1092
01:19:42,608 --> 01:19:43,188
They said.

1093
01:19:43,428 --> 01:19:44,148
When was this?

1094
01:19:44,488 --> 01:19:45,268
I don't remember

1095
01:19:45,268 --> 01:19:45,908
if it was the 80s

1096
01:19:45,908 --> 01:19:46,768
or the 90s or when.

1097
01:19:46,888 --> 01:19:47,608
Again, I...

1098
01:19:47,608 --> 01:19:48,428
Was it a thing then?

1099
01:19:48,748 --> 01:19:50,188
When was seasteading

1100
01:19:50,188 --> 01:19:51,588
first uttered the word?

1101
01:19:51,948 --> 01:19:52,888
Roughly the...

1102
01:19:52,888 --> 01:19:53,888
I think really the idea

1103
01:19:53,888 --> 01:19:54,188
has been around

1104
01:19:54,188 --> 01:19:55,268
since the 60s to the 70s.

1105
01:19:55,288 --> 01:19:55,728
Oh, has it?

1106
01:19:55,788 --> 01:19:56,528
I didn't know it went back.

1107
01:19:56,528 --> 01:19:56,788
Yes.

1108
01:19:56,948 --> 01:19:58,508
It went back to Rose Island

1109
01:19:58,508 --> 01:19:59,188
was in Italy.

1110
01:19:59,368 --> 01:19:59,848
That's right.

1111
01:19:59,948 --> 01:20:00,488
That was a floating structure.

1112
01:20:00,608 --> 01:20:01,428
There was a thing called

1113
01:20:01,428 --> 01:20:02,708
the Republic of Minerva

1114
01:20:02,708 --> 01:20:05,748
between Tonga and Australia, about halfway between.

1115
01:20:05,888 --> 01:20:07,588
So that was another seasteading project.

1116
01:20:07,708 --> 01:20:10,148
They actually dredged up an island, but it was a similar concept.

1117
01:20:10,928 --> 01:20:13,868
So I think that what happened is the French intelligence groups looked at this

1118
01:20:13,868 --> 01:20:15,368
and they said, wow, that's bad.

1119
01:20:15,588 --> 01:20:17,188
Freedom? That's bad. Can't have that.

1120
01:20:17,648 --> 01:20:19,988
And so they wrote about how this could,

1121
01:20:21,008 --> 01:20:22,868
basically they said something along the lines of like,

1122
01:20:22,868 --> 01:20:25,788
if you had terrorists or like violent rebels or something,

1123
01:20:25,888 --> 01:20:26,728
they were on a seastead,

1124
01:20:27,068 --> 01:20:29,728
it would be diplomatically really difficult to attack them.

1125
01:20:29,788 --> 01:20:31,528
They would be physically really far away.

1126
01:20:31,528 --> 01:20:37,988
They could be mobile, which means building a trap or a wall around them politically is really difficult.

1127
01:20:38,108 --> 01:20:42,528
You can't get neighboring countries to agree to attack a city if that city can just pick new neighbors.

1128
01:20:42,828 --> 01:20:48,568
So even in multiple levels, the diplomatic ability to attack a seastead is really difficult.

1129
01:20:48,988 --> 01:20:51,748
And this was something that worried the French intelligence agency.

1130
01:20:52,608 --> 01:20:53,568
Can't recall their name.

1131
01:20:54,008 --> 01:20:56,988
And so they wrote about this as being a really big threat.

1132
01:20:56,988 --> 01:21:02,588
And if a government says that what I'm doing is a really big threat, that's a massive compliment to me.

1133
01:21:03,248 --> 01:21:03,688
Yeah.

1134
01:21:05,008 --> 01:21:07,868
So, but that does imply that they will.

1135
01:21:09,188 --> 01:21:10,048
Do you think they'll get...

1136
01:21:10,048 --> 01:21:10,888
I hope not soon.

1137
01:21:11,208 --> 01:21:11,668
Well, no.

1138
01:21:11,668 --> 01:21:19,868
I would like for the French government to try and attack and delegitimize seasteading when there's already a population of 2 million in the ocean.

1139
01:21:20,188 --> 01:21:21,248
That's what I hope for.

1140
01:21:21,408 --> 01:21:26,208
Because if they try to nip it in the bud too early, then on the one hand, they'll probably be successful.

1141
01:21:26,208 --> 01:21:38,620
On the other hand they look overzealous and hyper You know imagine if the French intelligence agency started like assassinating seasteaders and then word got out on that That would get tens of millions of people

1142
01:21:38,620 --> 01:21:43,580
all over the world highly sympathetic to and highly interested in seasteading. So obviously

1143
01:21:43,580 --> 01:21:49,540
governments in the modern age, they don't tend to overreact in violent manners because it's bad PR

1144
01:21:49,540 --> 01:21:54,140
and PR is a really big deal. But if they wait too long, then they can't stop it anymore. So that's

1145
01:21:54,140 --> 01:21:56,160
what I would hope. Well, I've seen

1146
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,080
that play out a number

1147
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,160
of times and I think you've got

1148
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:01,880
you'll be fine.

1149
01:22:02,220 --> 01:22:04,260
I mean, it's happened in a number of things

1150
01:22:04,260 --> 01:22:06,140
that are unusual. Bitcoin's a

1151
01:22:06,140 --> 01:22:08,100
great example. It's been known

1152
01:22:08,100 --> 01:22:10,180
about since the beginning by the powers that

1153
01:22:10,180 --> 01:22:12,140
be. But it was

1154
01:22:12,140 --> 01:22:14,120
so weird and wonderful and

1155
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:15,600
unlikely to succeed.

1156
01:22:16,180 --> 01:22:18,340
That they didn't shoot anybody over it. Yeah, and by the time

1157
01:22:18,340 --> 01:22:19,580
they got their shit together

1158
01:22:19,580 --> 01:22:22,080
and they haven't even really got their shit together yet now

1159
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,020
either. And it's too late anyway.

1160
01:22:24,140 --> 01:22:25,620
Yeah, they're so slow moving.

1161
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,040
They couldn't catch Bitcoin.

1162
01:22:27,440 --> 01:22:28,380
They couldn't catch Ethereum.

1163
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:29,920
Ethereum is also already established.

1164
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:31,020
They can't stop that.

1165
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:34,080
Governments are too slow moving,

1166
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:38,860
and the free market just keeps getting faster and faster and faster

1167
01:22:38,860 --> 01:22:40,180
as technology evolves.

1168
01:22:40,660 --> 01:22:44,080
And I really believe that seasteading technology will move so fast.

1169
01:22:44,860 --> 01:22:47,400
You don't think of the maritime industry as being fast moving.

1170
01:22:47,500 --> 01:22:48,780
It's notoriously slow moving.

1171
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:51,760
But I think that seasteading technology can move so fast

1172
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:55,380
that 50 years from now, governments will turn their head and they'll say,

1173
01:22:55,780 --> 01:22:58,140
why is there 5 million people over there in the middle of the ocean?

1174
01:22:58,240 --> 01:22:58,460
Yeah.

1175
01:22:58,640 --> 01:22:59,480
And it's too late.

1176
01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:00,360
I think you're right.

1177
01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:01,880
I think that it will happen.

1178
01:23:03,580 --> 01:23:04,260
It will.

1179
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:07,080
It'll be, they'll suddenly realize.

1180
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:07,720
Yeah.

1181
01:23:08,140 --> 01:23:10,560
No, that's, it's good to hear anyway.

1182
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:16,320
And like I say, I'm glad I spoke to you because I've spoken to all the other seasteaders on the whole.

1183
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:18,720
I haven't spoken to the Sealand lot, actually.

1184
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:23,620
this is kind of like the original project really isn't it yeah you should talk to them because

1185
01:23:23,620 --> 01:23:28,120
their story is a bit different they didn't fly under the radar at all they yeah yeah they actually

1186
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:33,940
got into several guns out they got guns and they fired the guns yeah multiple times i tried very

1187
01:23:33,940 --> 01:23:38,140
hard to get them here but they're very hard to get a hold of they never answered their emails or

1188
01:23:38,140 --> 01:23:43,600
anything but i will don't worry them on whatsapp yeah yeah yeah and signal and i'm sorry telegram

1189
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:49,080
and everything. No, it's fine. It's, it doesn't matter. I had, I've got ample of what I need,

1190
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:55,840
but they will be on my radar to come on the show because like I say, I've spoken to everyone else.

1191
01:23:55,840 --> 01:24:02,580
And what I like about what you're doing is you're attacking the whole thing in a holistic way,

1192
01:24:02,580 --> 01:24:08,140
as in, um, how am I going to let's, you know, let's monetize this thing first. And I know you

1193
01:24:08,140 --> 01:24:13,760
could argue that everyone else is monetizing it, but they're monetizing it by, buy my thing.

1194
01:24:14,140 --> 01:24:14,460
Yes.

1195
01:24:14,580 --> 01:24:20,900
You're monetizing it by, come on, work on my thing, or my thing generates money.

1196
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:29,240
If I can sell a thing, if you can sell someone something to buy, they might buy it. If you can

1197
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:33,880
sell someone something that they can live in, they're likely to buy it. If you can sell someone

1198
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,680
something that they can live in and also generates passive income for them they're very likely to buy

1199
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:46,300
it yeah that's great i think we should leave it there that's a nice positive end to to it's a

1200
01:24:46,300 --> 01:24:53,560
it's actually mitchell the end of my time here in prague as well it's been have you enjoyed the uh

1201
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:58,580
the free cities uh conference i always enjoy the free cities conference i enjoyed the conference

1202
01:24:58,580 --> 01:25:03,780
and i enjoyed this uh this recording as well it was amazing you're absolutely right i i i got to

1203
01:25:03,780 --> 01:25:10,320
see a few few talks even this year but it is tell me whether you think that something's different

1204
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:16,820
this year that there's a we we something about the movement has has kind of got over a little hump

1205
01:25:16,820 --> 01:25:22,420
and there's something new happening is that is that just me no i i think so i think there's

1206
01:25:22,420 --> 01:25:28,620
i don't know if i'd say it's gotten over a hump i'd say that i see a a pattern leading up to

1207
01:25:28,620 --> 01:25:35,280
exponential expansion. I see more people, more interest, more money, more than what we had last

1208
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:40,280
year. And what I also see is more seasteaders showing up to this conference as well, and more

1209
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:45,240
people talking about seasteading. And I think that's a really good thing because, you know,

1210
01:25:45,260 --> 01:25:49,400
the two groups that need to get a lot of traction right now are seasteaders and network states and

1211
01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:53,860
have those two things come together. And then boom, you've really got something that is going

1212
01:25:53,860 --> 01:26:00,040
be a very advanced technology cumulatively. Thank you, Mitchell. Lovely to speak to you.

1213
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,560
Thanks for coming in. Thanks for coming in so late as well. It's getting dark. You're the last.

1214
01:26:05,300 --> 01:26:09,940
And good luck with everything. Genuinely good luck. And I'll be following closely from now on.

1215
01:26:09,940 --> 01:26:12,180
So thanks. Thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you, Jim.

1216
01:26:23,860 --> 01:26:25,960
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