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Welcome to the Free Cities podcast. My name is Timothy Allen and this is the official podcast

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of the Free Cities Foundation.

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Hello and welcome to this episode number 164 of the Free Cities podcast,

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brought to you as always by our wonderful sponsors Veritas Villages.

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Veritas Villages are building off-grid freedom-oriented communities in Latin America

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and these communities will no doubt appeal to you if, like me, you're a freedom lover

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and you're looking to live amongst like-minded individuals.

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They've got projects in Nicaragua, Panama and Costa Rica.

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And if you're a Bitcoiner like me, well, you can buy your property in a Veritas village with Bitcoin and you can spend Bitcoin at all communities.

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They'll even help you mine Bitcoin with the excess energy that your home will inevitably produce.

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Great for 2026, that one.

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Veritasvillages.com forward slash free cities for more info.

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that link is in the show notes of course and please mention us if you choose to do business

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with them right today's show well it's a seasteading one we haven't had a seasteading show

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for a while in fact it's the first seasteading show of three we have a trio of them coming up

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over the next couple of months i'll also be speaking at a later date with joe quirk the

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ever popular returning guest and recipient of our storytelling award at our Prague conference

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last year I'll also be speaking with Mitchell Suchner he's the creator of Ark Pads who was also

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at last year's conference he also created the first ever seasteading resort now he's also

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creating a project in Prospera at the moment but I'm going to tell you more about that in the next

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seasteading episode in February. I want to go much deeper into his new project because amongst

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other things, he's actually offering pre-purchase ownership options on it. So look out for that in

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February. That's a very exciting seasteading slash prosperer project going on there right back to the

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show. Today's guest is Mason. He's a doctor and a seasteader, of course, and the builder of LiberArcs.

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Liber Arks are his solar-powered floating catamaran-style homes designed for what I would

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call very comfortable living on water. In this episode, we discuss Liber Arks' role in the wider

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free cities and seasteading movement. We explore the practical challenges of living on water and

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why seasteading may be the most realistic path yet towards individual sovereignty and mobile

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self-directed lives. That's my take at least. It's become my take. Mason was one of the original

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people that converted me to the ideas of seasteading. It was about two years ago, I think.

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And as you know now, if you listen to this pod regularly, I'm a rather large advocate.

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put fountains key topics in this episode seasteading and free cities liba arcs the design

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and functionality the vision for atlas island that's another of mason's projects target market

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and a marketing strategy for selling his product challenges and opportunities in the seasteading

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movement and for this episode make sure you give the video version a look if you'd like to see

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images of mason's libra arcs it really does help best way to do that would be to come and find us

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on fountain that's fountain.fm fountain has both the video and the audio version if not you could

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go to youtube where you'll find the video version of this episode or rumble if you're a bit more

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subversive right talking of fountain shout out to all our value for value subscribers they're all

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using fountain to donate monthly to the free cities podcast and many thanks for your continued

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support and especially this week many thanks to og subscriber christopher albanese now just before

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christmas christopher asked to make a well very generous one-off higher value donation to the

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podcast for christmas and as a result i've now actually created a podcast donation page using

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the podcast's stripe account so if you would like to donate fiat currency to the free cities podcast

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you can use a credit card apple pay everything over on stripe details of that link are in the

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show notes and many thanks again christopher for your very generous gift i hope i'm not embarrassing

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you you didn't tell me not to mention it anyway another reminder to please review us on your

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podcasting app just a one minute task that's my new year's resolution is to mention this to you

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every week until it looks like we've got more subscribers on apple anyway don't forget january

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is actually the most popular time of the year for people to book their summer holidays i know my

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wife's currently just flicking through brochures continuously and whilst you're on the couch doing

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that and browsing your tropical paradises remember the free cities conference is happening in a

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tropical paradise this year that's right we're all heading off to prospera in september that's the

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third until the sixth of september that's actually only about 230 days away so get planning people

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spaces are more limited than prague and especially accommodation if you would like to stay inside

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prospera itself right time for the convo grab a rum and coke or something similar and your favorite

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deck chair i suppose it's time to for the second time in 2026 sit back relax and enjoy my conversation

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with mason

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right yeah we've come we've come on a bit come on a bit since the last time um

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yeah you were on it wasn't video was it no it wasn't it was audio only which to be honest i

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loved i loved audio only um but i understand that people want to see things and funnily enough in

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in the grand scheme of things still most of our listeners are audio and on youtube we get you know

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two or three hundred listens per episode it never seems to blow up but shorts which you know

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like on tiktok i've had just about to hit half a million views on shorts this year

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sorry in this last year yeah yeah um and you know what are and youtube shorts um

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is also hundreds of thousands or something so that you can see the way people consume this stuff

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is very different than I would have hoped.

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Yeah, we started doing video and all of a sudden people are...

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Sometimes I watch, you know, Joe Rogan for three hours.

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I actually do sit there and watch it.

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But people don't seem to...

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They don't come...

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Unless I'm being shadow banned on YouTube,

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but I don't think I am.

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I don't know.

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I mean I listen to every single episode on my podcast app but I never go to YouTube to watch it So i don know do you listen to every single episode i do yeah do you yeah well here i like to ask your advice then

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because sometimes i go off like i have to broaden the conversation a little bit yeah not least

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because there's not really enough people just to talk about free cities we're on a episode 155 now

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So there's not 155 people probably.

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There probably are.

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But so I obviously I branch out into freedom.

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And my real sort of like passions when we branch out are often strange and weird things.

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Like this actual episode that's coming out this week is with a guy called Joni Appleberg, who's a doctor.

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He's a doctor.

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But half the podcast probably we talk about psychedelics, which is not exactly a free cities concept.

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but freedom is and so but yeah so what what's your opinion on on the kind of content and and

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when it veers a little bit away from free cities does that bother you as a free cities listener

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i don't think it bothers me i think it's less interesting to me than the more directly related

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things but uh i mean you do a good job talking to people anyways so yeah well that we're about

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to hit a very long and hard round of free cities because i'm i think i'm doing 20 interviews this

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week so and they they will all be as you know we're at the free cities conference they'll they'll all

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be the actual movers and the shakers of which you are one mason and um we've spoken once on this

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podcast and i got the kind of the general i am mason um what you do and stuff and i'll be honest

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with you i don't know a lot else since i mean i know that you've got that liberarchs have got a

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new model and i think we were talking about that two years ago so that's obviously come to fruition

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i haven't heard much more about atlas island so then don't take this wrong way i've deliberately

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come in not knowing a huge amount yeah i hope that's okay so i'm just i'm basically just gonna

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i basically want to know um and i don't know you probably noticed as well if you do actually

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listen to every episode i've become a bit of a seasteader over the last couple years i've noticed

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that yeah right and i mean i just just interviewed vera just now just before you and we ended up

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talking about seasteading and i said to her and i'll repeat it now because i think it's true

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is i think too many people um sit on the idea of seasteading and just think haha that's cute

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without actually realizing i think it's one of the if not the most important idea in the whole

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free cities ecosystem and the the main reason is because we have a working model in the general

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consensus covering reality which is cruise ships which not only is very easy to explain all the

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concepts of free cities especially free private cities um but also people can relate to it because

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they can imagine themselves walking onto a ship right and when you say did you realize that's a

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floating private city works the same way governance models the same flagging all this

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kind of stuff yeah um so so even if we're not even talking about the actual nuts and bolts of the

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items that you're building and the ocean builders and all that lot of building the actual concept

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is super important and and will almost certainly be the thing which which for me it proves the model

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I mean, obviously, you're a seasteader, so you no doubt agree, but pick apart my argument there.

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No, I mean, I completely agree.

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As you said, cruise ships are floating cities, right?

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We don't call them that, primarily because they're short-term accommodations, but that's for the guests.

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The people who live on them, live on them for six months at a time.

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Their food is there, their house is there, their job is there, their boss is there, and everything's run according to the free private city model.

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There's nothing related to national regulation for the most part in any of these projects.

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And they're economically successful and they're winning.

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They're proving that people choose free cities without even knowing the ideology behind it because it just works better.

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Worth saying as well, super high standard of living.

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I mean, obviously, it's not to everyone's taste, but I think possibly one of the highest standard of living possible for a normal person.

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If you were a member of the aristocracy or a multi-billionaire, you could probably have that many people at your beck and call.

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But yeah, not, you know, I don't know.

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And the other important thing is it's not that it's a high standard living because we've taken a group of people and, you know,

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pressed them into work or, you know, made them do something against their will by the government trying to force an industry.

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These are people who voluntarily leave their homes and their families to go work on cruise

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ships because they're treated better and they make more money than they would working where

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they come from.

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So all people involved are in a win-win situation.

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It's completely voluntary.

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I did a speech in Serbia last month and I did a, I wanted to, I wanted to, I was talking

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to what you call normies about private cities and I've worked out through a, through a sort

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of um just through talking to people the easiest way to describe them is using cruise ships right

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not a lot of other people seem to do it but it's just so easy and so i did a bit of a dig in they've

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just two new cruise ships come out and i've the name of it's forgotten it's something of the seas

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icon of the seas two billion dollars yeah to build icon of the seas yeah that's enough to build a

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city right yeah a floating city they did it is a floating city right but but i mean when when you

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look at the other method and other models around i mean what are the main class of of sort of

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seasteads these days floating cities you know i know nothing's been officially classified but as

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someone who works and builds these kind of things what are the sort of major classifications according

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to you that's uh i mean that's an interesting question uh i think obviously as we said cruise

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ships are the best working example of a true floating city. You know, there are places where

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there's already floating extensions of cities, you know, floating buildings and floating apartments,

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things like that. Aside from that, the rest of it, when we're going at a smaller scale is still

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just being launched now. So, so far we have the, the C pod from ocean builders, which is a spar

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type home fairly unique and niche it's very interesting it's very beautiful I'm not confident

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as to how well it will scale or you know become affordable price-wise just because of their

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construction technique I'm hopeful but they've been working on it for quite some time and I think

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they're still out of budget of the average family the one that I'm more excited about is the arc pad

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from Mitchell Suchner in the Philippines.

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And I know they're going to be launching sales of those very soon.

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And he's actually looking to be building a floating house.

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It looks just like a house.

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It's on a flat platform.

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You build a house on top of it.

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And it will be cost competitive, actually cheaper than most real estate

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in most parts of the developed world.

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So that's very exciting to me.

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And when he gets that launched and starts scaling up,

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I think that's really where we can start to see things taking off and growing

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because those are interlocking platforms that essentially fit the vision that Joe Quirk laid out of modular cities

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with individual buildings that connect together and can be rearranged.

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So that's exciting.

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I think from my perspective, though, the other piece that I'm working on and will be launching actually on Friday

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is the LibraArcs, which is taking it from the opposite direction.

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Most of the things so far on the smaller scale have been stationary objects,

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But what we're launching is a essentially a floating mobile home, a house yacht as we

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could call it, that is designed for a family of between two to six people to live comfortably

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on the ocean.

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It if you imagine a waterfront apartment 110 square meters of interior space and another 40 or so square meters of balcony And now imagine that you can go anywhere in the world you want with this apartment And I think that adds to the dynamic because it one thing to have buildings that can be rearranged but it another thing to have the ability to move families around more easily

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and both participate in sea staying as well as take advantage of the nomad lifestyle and

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tour the world.

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It's, in my perspective, it's the best of all worlds.

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You get a home that's as comfortable as an apartment and as mobile as a boat or an RV.

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So you really just bring your home wherever you want with you.

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so that's those are the three projects i think right now that are uh closest to fruition right

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i i'm with you there c pods that's grant grant's stuff i'd say they're high end i mean he i think

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he told me that one cost him five million at the moment but yeah and he wants to get it down to

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one million maybe but yeah and and you know the interesting thing about that they're you know

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there are amazing engineers that are working on it um from my perspective what i would like to see

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them do you know i mean i don't know the back side of their operations but they're taking on so many

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things at once right they're not just trying to build a floating house they're trying to build

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a floating futuristic house with uh an incinerating toilet and a ring that controls everything and a

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helicopter landing on the roof and water recycling so i think that's why they're so expensive because

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they're taking on so many challenges at once and you know it's fantastic that they're still going

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and i hope that they will succeed but i think because they're taking on so much it's going to

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take longer to you know to reach the mass market and also talking of arc pad as well the latest

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arc pads that i saw were in the philippines were basically floating in a way tents so that's not

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what you're describing no so arc pad i guess to clarify you know uh there are two things arc pad

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the company which produces those floating tents he calls those the glamp houses that are part of

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the reef resort and then the arc pad crd which is their um i guess you would call it their higher

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end model but i would say a very reasonable model i i've told mitchell you know i don't know that

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those tents are going to be something that will scale outside of lower income countries for lower

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income countries where you have you know protected waters it's fantastic because it it addresses that

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population but for a western audience i think the the model that will be most of interest to them is

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is the arc pad d which i don't know if you've seen it on the website it's basically a 10 meter by 10

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meter platform that floats a couple meters above the the waves and you can build a house one or two

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stories right on top of that platform okay right because i'm speaking to him next week so i'll

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hold off there i mean you've got your own project to talk about um but it's it's good to get a sense

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i mean i'm just checking really that i know all the projects currently and that's that's what i

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know so i'm glad to see that um like you say they're all small scale i think probably in the

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back of everyone's minds is the multi-billion dollar cities. But according to you, at least,

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do you think these are a stepping stone to get there? Or do you think this is a completely

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different idea? Because it kind of serves the more nomadic side of things.

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No, I think there's certainly a stepping stone to get there. The reason being is that as we started

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this conversation, cruise ships are essentially a planned community where everything is owned by

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one owner and rent it out to the individual, which can be interesting, but for, especially

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for vacations, but most people don't want to live full-time in a community like that.

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And you can see that because where people live on land is, is all cities that have grown

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up organically block by block, building by building.

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So I think this, this idea to build a, you know, a $2 billion boat that serves as a seastead

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for people living aboard permanently, it could work, but it's, it's a bit of a, again, a

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second problem because not only do you have to convince people to live on the water full-time,

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but you also have to convince them that they're going to live in this planned community, which

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they don't do on land. Whereas when you look at something like the Ark Pad or the Libra Arcs

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or the Sea Pod, this is how cities build up on land. They start with a few individuals living in

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their home and then more people come together. It becomes a village and then from there enough

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people accumulate in one area and it becomes a town. You get a business district and it grows up

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and grows up and grows up.

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So if you, these three projects,

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and there's a couple others in the works as well,

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as a foundation stones for a larger city,

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it will certainly take time.

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But I think once you get enough people living in one place

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that the demand for density is there,

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then you'll start seeing engineers going

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and developing larger structures

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that are more equivalent to apartment buildings

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or skyscrapers.

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But you first, whenever you're building a city anywhere,

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unless it's got a huge amount of government funding,

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you start with low-rise development,

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and that's where we're at right now with Seasteads.

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so but as far as i know arc pad and c pod and we'll come to yours in a bit don't worry but um

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i don't think they're modular are they well it depends on what you mean by modular well as in

237
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they're designed as individual vessels at the moment and there's no way to park two next to

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each other necessarily and link them up with the in a sense that you'll end up with something as

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large enough to call a town or a city. So with the C-Pod, you're correct. They are not

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directly linked together. They do have plans for platforms that connect them. But with the

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Archipad, they actually are intended to be linked together. That's why they're all 10 by 10 meter

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building blocks, because then you can link these together and create walkways between them. And you

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can create blocks and blocks of housing that are walkable communities. I don't think you'll get to

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the point where there's you know roads with cars or buses or anything like that but you could

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definitely have people walking between the platforms or even biking between the platforms

246
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and you could put tens or hundreds of these connected together and and build a small little

247
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town or village okay right once again i'll leave that until i'm speaking to the guy that's actually

248
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building these let's go on to your to your liberarchs as they're called with an x on the end

249
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And I mean, I remember when we spoke last, a couple of years ago, they were catamaran-esque.

250
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What's the, I mean, it would be really useful actually as well if you have a picture that I can lay onto the video as well.

251
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Right, good.

252
00:22:39,216 --> 00:22:43,236
I'll sort that out with you at a later date, but why don't you go ahead and describe exactly what it is?

253
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Yeah, so I think the best way to describe it is that when most people build boats,

254
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they build a boat around sails or motors for the purpose of moving. What we've done with the

255
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Libra Arcs is we've designed an apartment, a single unit from an apartment building,

256
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and put the things on top and below to make this into a floating and mobile house.

257
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So technically speaking, you could classify it as a catamaran. It does have two halls underneath,

258
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it's able to move at about five to eight knots. But from a practical perspective, what it is,

259
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is it's a floating house that is able to move.

260
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And it's really optimized around that.

261
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Unlike other vessels that you can buy,

262
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we designed everything around domestic appliances.

263
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We don't want people, you know,

264
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hassling with pump toilets like you have on boats.

265
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We don't want them smelling the sewage.

266
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We don't want to worry about low water pressure.

267
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We don't want to have to go up and down narrow and tight stairs

268
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or turn tight corners.

269
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We don't want beds crammed in between two different things.

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So what we did was we created this platform

271
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where the living area is 9 meters wide by 12 meters long.

272
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And that's a completely open space, free to be arranged however you want.

273
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We've created a reference design, you know, that I think will suit most people well.

274
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But all in all, what it is, is it is a floating house.

275
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And it is designed to be mobile anywhere in the world that you want to go with it.

276
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And engineering wise, does it have a pillar system like the C pods or whatever?

277
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What keeps it afloat or upright?

278
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Yeah, no.

279
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So engineering wise, it is practically speaking a catamaran base with a house on top of it.

280
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Um, so, you know, there's pros and cons to that.

281
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Uh, certainly something like the arc pad is going to be more comfortable in a high wave

282
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situation because you have the pillars.

283
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There's no doubt about that.

284
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The catamaran, you will feel the boat will move side to side with waves, not like a sailboat,

285
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not like a monohull.

286
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Um, but if you have two or three meter waves, you're going to feel it.

287
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You're not going to, you're not going to think that nothing's happening on the flip side.

288
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What it does allow you to do is it allows you to be mobile.

289
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So while a stationary structure like a sea pod or an arc pad have to withstand four to five meter waves because

290
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They are where they are and then they can't move when a storm comes with something like the Libra arcs

291
00:24:53,056 --> 00:25:07,654
You can move and you can design it You can design your lifestyle around the weather conditions So before a large seasteading community develops I think you know the ideal situation would be for example spending your summers in the Mediterranean and spending your winters in the Caribbean always being in good

292
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weather and sailing from port to port, maybe spending a couple of weeks or a couple of months

293
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in each location. And, you know, you can homeschool your kids, you can work remotely and you can

294
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tour the world and, you know, live life as a nomad without the inconvenience of living out of a

295
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suitcase, the hassle of planes and the cost of hotel rooms.

296
00:25:24,974 --> 00:25:27,094
So sailing across the Atlantic, not a problem?

297
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Not a problem, no.

298
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People do that in much smaller vessels all the time.

299
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You're not going to go from England to Newfoundland.

300
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You're going to go down through the Canaries and across in the tropical waters.

301
00:25:37,214 --> 00:25:42,654
But if you pull up a map of pleasure craft routes, thousands and thousands of vessels

302
00:25:42,654 --> 00:25:43,774
do this crossing every year.

303
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Many of them are 30 to 40 feet long, much smaller, and monohulls rather than catamarans.

304
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So it's certainly a very doable journey.

305
00:25:51,934 --> 00:25:55,054
And anyone could accomplish it if they wish.

306
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The other option is if you don't want to do that journey yourself, you can always hire someone to pilot your vessel.

307
00:26:00,714 --> 00:26:04,114
So in the two times a year when you have to cross, it'd take a couple of weeks.

308
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You can hire someone to bring your vessel for you and you can take a two-week vacation and go wherever else you want anywhere else in the world.

309
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gosh i i'm i don't know enough about sailing but the thought of going across the atlantic in

310
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a large catamaran with all my possessions in it and you know an apartment does seem a tad scary

311
00:26:25,694 --> 00:26:32,754
it's obviously not what about you know like i've i've sailed i have a i think we spoke about this

312
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last time i have a bad history of sailing i've i've sailed i hate sailing basically end up

313
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you know and i one thing i know is one of the things that happens all the time is everything

314
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falls off the shelves and the tabletops and all this kind of stuff so the thought of and but i'm

315
00:26:48,514 --> 00:26:55,214
someone who who's owned an rv and a caravan before so i love the idea um but i also know that you have

316
00:26:55,214 --> 00:27:00,074
to pack things away very well so you know a couple years ago i think i helped convert you to seasteading

317
00:27:00,074 --> 00:27:05,234
let me convert you to the libra arcs now okay first of all it's not a sailboat i you know i've

318
00:27:05,234 --> 00:27:10,534
learn to sail. I appreciate sailing, but I don't like sailing, right? I like living on the water.

319
00:27:10,614 --> 00:27:15,494
And that's what this has been designed around. There is no sail on the boat. The roof is covered

320
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with about 27 and a half kilowatts of solar panels. And the boat is moved by two electric motors.

321
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So going at a reasonable speed, you can cruise indefinitely on electric power from the sun.

322
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No need for any diesel, no need for any gas. If you want to go faster, if you want to go when the

323
00:27:29,874 --> 00:27:33,254
clouds are out, there are, there is a diesel generator that will let you go across the ocean

324
00:27:33,254 --> 00:27:37,454
with diesel power alone, but there is none of the hassle, none of the inconvenience of sailing.

325
00:27:37,634 --> 00:27:41,694
And because our electric motors, there's basically no maintenance. So you can think of it like an

326
00:27:41,694 --> 00:27:46,234
electric RV. You push the throttle forward, the engine spool up and you, you steer the boat and

327
00:27:46,234 --> 00:27:49,214
it goes where you want to go. You don't need to worry about trimming the sails or any of those

328
00:27:49,214 --> 00:27:54,674
other skills that do take a long time to develop. It's very easy to pilot. Secondly, because there's

329
00:27:54,674 --> 00:27:59,934
no sail and because it's a catamaran, it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, go side to side like a normal

330
00:27:59,934 --> 00:28:06,434
sailboat does. The catamaran, by nature of having two hulls, it will always stay parallel to the

331
00:28:06,434 --> 00:28:10,974
water surface. So as long as you're going somewhere where the waves are relatively reasonable, which

332
00:28:10,974 --> 00:28:16,774
you can certainly plot out based on modern weather forecasts, catamarans are not like sailboats.

333
00:28:16,934 --> 00:28:21,354
If you watch a video of a catamaran on YouTube, first of all, the stove is not gimballed because

334
00:28:21,354 --> 00:28:25,794
everything's flat. Second of all, you'll see people crossing the ocean and they have wine

335
00:28:25,794 --> 00:28:30,194
glasses on their table and they're eating normal food and normal drinks on a table and everything's

336
00:28:30,194 --> 00:28:34,394
flat and everything's smooth you'll feel a little bit of rocking but similar to an rv going down the

337
00:28:34,394 --> 00:28:39,594
highway it's not like a boat going crashing across big waves going back and forth as a sail goes left

338
00:28:39,594 --> 00:28:45,954
and right so yeah it i completely understand and this is actually part of the reason why we designed

339
00:28:45,954 --> 00:28:51,094
the libra arcs because there's very few vessels of this size that are comfortable that are not

340
00:28:51,094 --> 00:28:57,974
designed around a sail and i think the big sail on top is a major barrier to entry for many people

341
00:28:57,974 --> 00:29:03,134
who want to enjoy the lifestyle on water so what we've done is we've created essentially a large rv

342
00:29:03,134 --> 00:29:08,454
i mean it makes rvs look small because most rvs are what eight feet wide or something like that by

343
00:29:08,454 --> 00:29:15,574
40 feet long i think our vessel is uh our vessel is 64 feet long and 30 feet wide so it's you know

344
00:29:15,574 --> 00:29:20,974
probably five or six times the size of an rv it's quite impressive it's big and it's just as

345
00:29:20,974 --> 00:29:25,094
comfortable as an RV. And on top of that, you can go anywhere there's water. So you can go to

346
00:29:25,094 --> 00:29:31,414
islands, you can go to coastlines. So it's all the benefits of the RV, but with more space,

347
00:29:31,414 --> 00:29:35,894
more comfort, energy independence, because you're not going fast. So solar power works,

348
00:29:35,934 --> 00:29:39,834
you don't need to fill up your diesel tank constantly. And then also country independence,

349
00:29:39,934 --> 00:29:43,954
you're not landlocked to one location, you can basically go anywhere in the world you want to go.

350
00:29:44,174 --> 00:29:49,214
Because when you look at the map of civilization, most civilization is based around waterways and

351
00:29:49,214 --> 00:29:54,174
water access for historic reasons. Even Prague, which is, you know, in Central Europe, we've done

352
00:29:54,174 --> 00:29:58,814
the, we've looked at the charts and the LiberX, based on the size that we built it, can actually

353
00:29:58,814 --> 00:30:03,434
sail into downtown Prague. So, you know, maybe in a couple of years, you'll see someone sailing to

354
00:30:03,434 --> 00:30:08,254
the Free Cities Conference on their LiberX. They'll park on the river and they'll walk to

355
00:30:08,254 --> 00:30:11,834
the conference and they'll go back home to their apartment. Where can you moor down here though?

356
00:30:12,074 --> 00:30:16,354
I mean, like presumably you need to, you can't just leave it in the middle of the river. Well,

357
00:30:16,354 --> 00:30:20,894
Well, not in the middle of the river, but usually along the river, there are places to moor up boats.

358
00:30:21,694 --> 00:30:23,634
So anywhere along the river, you can moor up any boat.

359
00:30:23,714 --> 00:30:25,414
You can just moor it up and you have your solar power.

360
00:30:25,574 --> 00:30:27,074
You have everything with you.

361
00:30:29,014 --> 00:30:34,974
I seem to remember when we spoke before, and this is something that Joe Quirk is always going on about,

362
00:30:34,974 --> 00:30:40,114
is in order to get your vessels inshored, et cetera, they need to be classified.

363
00:30:40,594 --> 00:30:42,194
I'm pretty sure we spoke about it before.

364
00:30:42,194 --> 00:30:42,714
We did, yes.

365
00:30:43,394 --> 00:30:45,634
Is a Liberax classified?

366
00:30:46,354 --> 00:30:51,834
Um, it's not yet because we haven't built the first one, but it is designed according

367
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:55,074
to standard catamaran rules and it is designed.

368
00:30:55,074 --> 00:30:58,534
And as soon as we build the first one, it will be classified according to a catamaran

369
00:30:58,534 --> 00:30:58,814
rules.

370
00:30:58,914 --> 00:31:02,034
So as far as insurance is concerned, this is the same as any other boat.

371
00:31:02,294 --> 00:31:04,634
That's one advantage of using the catamaran hull.

372
00:31:05,034 --> 00:31:09,074
Unlike the, uh, the sea pod or the archetype pad, we're not looking to create a new category

373
00:31:09,074 --> 00:31:09,654
of thing.

374
00:31:10,054 --> 00:31:11,234
Uh, yes, it's more comfortable.

375
00:31:11,334 --> 00:31:11,534
Yes.

376
00:31:11,534 --> 00:31:15,014
It feels like a home on the inside, but the regulators look at it and say, Oh, this is

377
00:31:15,014 --> 00:31:15,454
a catamaran.

378
00:31:15,454 --> 00:31:16,914
We know exactly what to do with this.

379
00:31:16,994 --> 00:31:20,674
And as long as you check these boxes, which we have, as soon as you get it built, we'll

380
00:31:20,674 --> 00:31:22,194
give you a stamp and you'll get your insurance.

381
00:31:22,794 --> 00:31:26,294
So there are already catamarans that are nine meters by 12 meters.

382
00:31:26,494 --> 00:31:26,734
Absolutely.

383
00:31:26,974 --> 00:31:27,194
Yes.

384
00:31:27,314 --> 00:31:27,934
And what are they?

385
00:31:27,994 --> 00:31:28,914
Just massive shit.

386
00:31:29,374 --> 00:31:30,254
That's a big, isn't it?

387
00:31:30,254 --> 00:31:31,554
Well, it's-

388
00:31:31,554 --> 00:31:32,974
Nine meters by, yeah.

389
00:31:33,254 --> 00:31:38,214
I mean, I built an annex of my house, which is six meters by six meters.

390
00:31:38,234 --> 00:31:39,074
And that was pretty big.

391
00:31:39,194 --> 00:31:39,374
Yeah.

392
00:31:39,454 --> 00:31:41,234
So nine meters by 12 meters.

393
00:31:41,294 --> 00:31:42,894
Nine meters by 19 and a half meters.

394
00:31:43,514 --> 00:31:43,754
Oh.

395
00:31:43,754 --> 00:31:45,414
12 meters is the interior space.

396
00:31:45,494 --> 00:31:47,154
The overall length is 19 and a half meters.

397
00:31:47,314 --> 00:31:48,434
Nine by 19.

398
00:31:48,694 --> 00:31:49,914
So that's, yeah, that's big.

399
00:31:50,174 --> 00:31:52,334
Yeah, it's a standard class.

400
00:31:52,394 --> 00:31:57,194
If you look up different catamarans, the big companies, Lagoon, Leopard, Fountain Pajot,

401
00:31:57,534 --> 00:31:59,414
they all have boats in this size range.

402
00:31:59,494 --> 00:32:01,274
They usually call them the 60 or the 65.

403
00:32:01,514 --> 00:32:02,434
Ours is the 64.

404
00:32:03,134 --> 00:32:04,714
It's a standard size boat.

405
00:32:04,814 --> 00:32:08,914
It is, you know, on the higher end of recreational, but nothing absurd.

406
00:32:08,914 --> 00:32:12,294
Like these are things that you would see quite commonly in most anchorages.

407
00:32:12,294 --> 00:32:18,414
It's just most of them are built around a big 80-foot mast on top of it with sails and designed for sailing around and cruising.

408
00:32:19,054 --> 00:32:22,074
I was going to say, why hasn't this not been done before?

409
00:32:22,234 --> 00:32:29,874
I mean, when you look at – I'm a keen observer of RV technology, mainly on YouTube these days because I no longer own one.

410
00:32:29,994 --> 00:32:35,594
But these days, you know, especially in the States, you can buy things which are just out of this world.

411
00:32:35,774 --> 00:32:39,434
They're like, you know, the sides come out like this.

412
00:32:39,434 --> 00:32:44,694
So RV technology is just like going on in leaps and bounds.

413
00:32:45,414 --> 00:32:55,194
So what is it about boat technology, which means people are keeping boats as boats, if you see what I mean, and not designing them around apartments, say?

414
00:32:55,514 --> 00:33:00,434
I think, isn't that a fair way to describe the angle you're coming from?

415
00:33:00,474 --> 00:33:04,414
Is it from a habitation first and then, you know, sailing second?

416
00:33:04,534 --> 00:33:06,014
Because it's not actually sailing, but, you know.

417
00:33:06,114 --> 00:33:06,854
Yeah, yeah.

418
00:33:06,974 --> 00:33:08,934
I think, you know, there's a couple answers to this.

419
00:33:08,934 --> 00:33:12,974
One, there is a product that is somewhat similar to what we're doing called the silent yacht

420
00:33:12,974 --> 00:33:16,194
and they do sell them.

421
00:33:16,194 --> 00:33:19,954
But the difference is that for the most part,

422
00:33:19,992 --> 00:33:25,372
boatbuilders have not really focused on mass manufacturing vessels of this size. They've

423
00:33:25,372 --> 00:33:30,492
really made them kind of bespoke one-off things that are run in small production series, which

424
00:33:30,492 --> 00:33:37,352
by extension means that, you know, they're not attainable for the average person. And also,

425
00:33:37,512 --> 00:33:40,632
it becomes a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If someone knows that this boat is

426
00:33:40,632 --> 00:33:46,632
going to cost at least 2 million euro or $2 million, then they're going to want to make it

427
00:33:46,632 --> 00:33:50,352
look fancy and they'll add you know some extra curves and things that make it harder to manufacture

428
00:33:50,352 --> 00:33:54,612
because what's an extra 500 000 when you're already paying two million but we've taken the

429
00:33:54,612 --> 00:33:58,932
opposite approach that we've designed from the ground up a boat that is designed for

430
00:33:58,932 --> 00:34:06,512
manufacturability and scale so i think to circle back to your question um i think right now there

431
00:34:06,512 --> 00:34:09,672
are boats that you can live on they're very comfortable they're just not affordable for

432
00:34:09,672 --> 00:34:14,872
the average person um and what we're looking to do at librax is we're not really inventing a new

433
00:34:14,872 --> 00:34:20,172
category, what we're looking to do is go from the bespoke automobile to the Model T. We want to make

434
00:34:20,172 --> 00:34:24,432
something that's mass producible, that's attainable from the masses, and that can be affordable for an

435
00:34:24,432 --> 00:34:29,232
average middle-class family. And that's what we're aiming to price this boat at. We've actually just

436
00:34:29,232 --> 00:34:34,032
gotten a quote back from one potential producer, and they told us that they should be able to

437
00:34:34,032 --> 00:34:39,452
produce this vessel for about $750,000 US, which sounds like a high number, but when you think

438
00:34:39,452 --> 00:34:43,272
about it, that you have a 110 square meter apartment that has constant waterfront views,

439
00:34:43,272 --> 00:34:47,832
no utility bills and mobility to go around the world that's actually quite comparable and cheaper

440
00:34:47,832 --> 00:34:52,892
than waterfront apartments in many major cities in the western hemisphere presumably as well a

441
00:34:52,892 --> 00:34:58,272
catamaran of that size is quite expensive anyway is it oh yeah no i mean if you wanted to just get

442
00:34:58,272 --> 00:35:03,092
a standard catamaran you're talking probably uh two million oh right okay so yeah so we've made

443
00:35:03,092 --> 00:35:08,692
it cheaper than the average catamaran something i've just thought about is you probably are gonna

444
00:35:08,692 --> 00:35:16,572
to be up against, like your buyer, for example, you've got, it's an interesting little niche

445
00:35:16,572 --> 00:35:22,512
that you're going to try and sell to because your average boat person probably going to

446
00:35:22,512 --> 00:35:24,832
look down their nose at something that doesn't sail, right?

447
00:35:25,092 --> 00:35:27,172
It doesn't sail and it doesn't look like a boat, right?

448
00:35:27,192 --> 00:35:28,252
It looks more like an RV.

449
00:35:28,392 --> 00:35:32,732
It's a big box on top of the water rather than having sleek curves and lines.

450
00:35:33,232 --> 00:35:35,312
So yeah, it's a very different market.

451
00:35:35,312 --> 00:35:40,352
and and that's you know we're leaning into that and we're embracing it we're not trying to be a

452
00:35:40,352 --> 00:35:46,532
boat we're trying to be a house and again going back to your previous point we're when you're

453
00:35:46,532 --> 00:35:50,012
selling a two million dollar boat you need to not only find someone who has two million dollars you

454
00:35:50,012 --> 00:35:54,852
need to find someone who has two million dollars probably in cash because it's hard to mortgage a

455
00:35:54,852 --> 00:35:59,272
boat that's used for recreation on top of the ability to pay for the principal residence we're

456
00:35:59,272 --> 00:36:05,212
targeting the 750 000 price point as someone who uses as their primary accommodation so anyone

457
00:36:05,212 --> 00:36:10,092
who's been able to buy and pay off water for an apartment can sell that apartment buy one of these

458
00:36:10,092 --> 00:36:13,852
and live on it full time so it's a completely different market and seasteaders will certainly

459
00:36:13,852 --> 00:36:17,572
be part of it but we've also done a lot of thinking about this that to scale this up we need to go

460
00:36:17,572 --> 00:36:21,912
beyond seasteaders at least initially and still seasteading catches on and really it's ideal for

461
00:36:21,912 --> 00:36:27,232
a family who wants to live a nomad lifestyle and enjoy the outdoor world and explore and and have

462
00:36:27,232 --> 00:36:35,672
freedom but what about you know not having sea legs which your average you know like who is your

463
00:36:35,672 --> 00:36:42,012
who is your buyer i said that's an interesting question really because like i say why why would

464
00:36:42,012 --> 00:36:47,412
suddenly why would someone who's not a fae with the sea suddenly decide you know what i'm going

465
00:36:47,412 --> 00:36:54,212
to live on the sea which is i understand ideologically is a phenomenal idea but um i

466
00:36:54,212 --> 00:37:00,752
I wouldn't necessarily think that most people would think that's an easy transition to make, going from land to sea.

467
00:37:01,112 --> 00:37:01,272
Yeah.

468
00:37:01,352 --> 00:37:09,792
So, again, like our Atlas Islander, our plan, I don't think that the first people buying the Libra Arc will anchor it in the middle of the ocean and just live there.

469
00:37:09,792 --> 00:37:17,592
I think the vast majority of people who buy the first dozens or hundreds of these vessels will be people who want to live on it and live a coastal life.

470
00:37:17,712 --> 00:37:22,692
So they'll probably, you know, they could take it, like I said, to Prague for a month, spend a month here and then say, well, you know, now I want to go to Paris.

471
00:37:22,752 --> 00:37:23,392
I'm going to bring it to Paris.

472
00:37:23,392 --> 00:37:27,152
I'll spend five days, I'll sail to Paris, and I'll spend another month living in Paris.

473
00:37:27,312 --> 00:37:32,232
So it's someone who wants to enjoy the lifestyle available in all these cities and move around as a nomad,

474
00:37:32,352 --> 00:37:35,612
but have the convenience of having their entire house and all their possessions with them,

475
00:37:35,652 --> 00:37:38,692
not having to live out of a suitcase and not constantly relocating.

476
00:37:39,672 --> 00:37:44,392
You know, certainly if you want to be a hardcore sailor and go out and, you know, race,

477
00:37:44,452 --> 00:37:46,752
you're going to, you know, encounter adverse conditions.

478
00:37:46,932 --> 00:37:52,972
But if you're a digital nomad or, you know, a retiree who has enough money that you're not in a rush,

479
00:37:52,972 --> 00:37:56,552
you don't need to go anywhere quickly you can wait a few days for the weather to pass and wait

480
00:37:56,552 --> 00:38:00,552
for a good sailing opportunity then you'll make your one or two or five day journey to your next

481
00:38:00,552 --> 00:38:05,672
destination and then you'll spend most of your time at anchor but what about you know like do

482
00:38:05,672 --> 00:38:10,392
are you gonna you're presumably you're gonna need to understand sailing a little bit i appreciate

483
00:38:10,392 --> 00:38:17,872
that it's going to be nice and simple but you know um cruising into a port or a dock or whatever

484
00:38:17,872 --> 00:38:23,572
You know, you can't just, you know, parking your boat is not going to be as easy as parking your car, is it?

485
00:38:23,952 --> 00:38:29,652
No, but because it's a catamaran, because it has electric motors and it doesn't have a sail, it actually becomes much easier.

486
00:38:30,332 --> 00:38:33,952
You're not going to take someone who's never sailed a boat and just say, here are the keys go.

487
00:38:34,232 --> 00:38:36,672
But what you can do is give them five or seven days of training.

488
00:38:36,812 --> 00:38:39,432
And I can tell you personally, I was not a sailor growing up.

489
00:38:39,512 --> 00:38:42,312
But after five days on a catamaran, you get the hang of it.

490
00:38:42,332 --> 00:38:44,472
It works just like any other skid steer vehicle.

491
00:38:44,712 --> 00:38:45,892
You have great control over it.

492
00:38:45,892 --> 00:38:53,352
A catamaran, because it has two motors, one in each hull, can actually spin itself in a circle on a dime and rotate anywhere you want it to go.

493
00:38:53,612 --> 00:38:56,692
And because they're electric motors and you don't have a sail, it's very easy to control.

494
00:38:56,892 --> 00:38:58,852
So, yeah, it does take some getting used to.

495
00:38:58,972 --> 00:39:02,672
But anyone who can drive a vehicle with a few days of training can drive a catamaran.

496
00:39:02,672 --> 00:39:20,992
When you look at all the projects, like the three you've mentioned so far, I think it's obvious that the first iterations of all these things are kind of recreational type applications, possibly tourism.

497
00:39:21,732 --> 00:39:29,372
You know, these seem to be, which is interestingly what I've also thought would be the first applications of floating cities as well.

498
00:39:29,372 --> 00:39:33,392
the same kind of stuff tourism a bit of an interesting oh let's go and stay on the floating

499
00:39:33,392 --> 00:39:40,872
city or let's go and stay um and uh i mean part of the fact is of that is probably that the price

500
00:39:40,872 --> 00:39:46,372
starts high and comes down i assume you're anticipating the price to come down somewhat

501
00:39:46,372 --> 00:39:52,532
as you start producing that's the hope i mean to be honest we've done a lot um to get the price

502
00:39:52,532 --> 00:39:58,372
down we were here again two years ago talking about the concept um and looking at external

503
00:39:58,372 --> 00:40:03,232
pictures, you won't notice too many differences, but we've gone through probably 10 iterations

504
00:40:03,232 --> 00:40:09,252
of refining and manufacturability of this vessel. And that $750,000 price point, I think is

505
00:40:09,252 --> 00:40:14,212
very competitive. What I can tell you is it certainly will not go up in terms of inflation.

506
00:40:14,352 --> 00:40:18,732
And if we can scale up, then my hope is that we can continue to drop that price over time,

507
00:40:18,732 --> 00:40:24,072
at least adjusted for inflation, in terms of gold ounces, for example, maybe not in terms of

508
00:40:24,072 --> 00:40:27,352
Fed bills that are going to constantly decrease in value. But...

509
00:40:28,592 --> 00:40:31,512
Point, you have to add that to everything you say.

510
00:40:31,552 --> 00:40:36,372
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, three years ago when I first thought of this, so the target price was

511
00:40:36,372 --> 00:40:43,292
$500,000. And you say, okay, well, now it's $750,000. But $750,000 buys less now than $500,000 did back then.

512
00:40:43,292 --> 00:40:48,532
I've got a feeling when we first spoke, when I spoke with you two years ago, we spoke about Bitcoin, didn't we?

513
00:40:48,792 --> 00:40:49,752
We did a little bit. Yeah.

514
00:40:49,972 --> 00:40:52,412
I think I told you it was a great time to buy.

515
00:40:52,872 --> 00:40:54,632
Yeah, I think, yeah, you did.

516
00:40:54,712 --> 00:40:56,272
And you know what, I'm a gold guy.

517
00:40:56,332 --> 00:40:58,332
And luckily I got into gold because gold did just as well.

518
00:41:00,032 --> 00:41:00,792
I'm not sure.

519
00:41:00,912 --> 00:41:02,112
Actually, I'm going to have to call you on that.

520
00:41:02,172 --> 00:41:03,312
I don't think it did as well.

521
00:41:03,772 --> 00:41:05,452
If you look at the charts, it's done.

522
00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:06,412
In two years?

523
00:41:06,672 --> 00:41:07,772
I don't know the exact timeframe,

524
00:41:07,772 --> 00:41:09,752
but on average over the last three to four years,

525
00:41:09,832 --> 00:41:11,552
gold has performed or outperformed Bitcoin.

526
00:41:12,452 --> 00:41:13,712
I'm going to have to look into that.

527
00:41:13,912 --> 00:41:15,392
I can't believe that's true.

528
00:41:15,452 --> 00:41:19,572
Four years ago, gold was around 2,100 Canadian an ounce.

529
00:41:19,632 --> 00:41:21,292
And it's now about 6,000 Canadian.

530
00:41:21,292 --> 00:41:23,292
It's like tripled in the last four.

531
00:41:23,292 --> 00:41:28,292
It's tripled. And two years ago, Bitcoin was maybe 30.

532
00:41:28,292 --> 00:41:29,292
Yeah.

533
00:41:29,292 --> 00:41:30,292
So it's more than tripled.

534
00:41:30,292 --> 00:41:34,292
Well, it's about the same. It depends on where exactly you start and end, but yeah.

535
00:41:34,292 --> 00:41:45,490
Okay Well then let go back eight years then Anyway But so yeah so where are you at then with actually selling them

536
00:41:46,090 --> 00:41:48,930
Have you got a brochure?

537
00:41:49,110 --> 00:41:51,590
Can someone look through and go, yes, I'd like this, this?

538
00:41:51,590 --> 00:41:55,130
A lot of people pick RVs from a brochure, don't they?

539
00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:57,750
And they kind of custom make them sometimes.

540
00:41:58,050 --> 00:42:02,790
Yeah, so we just finished the design for the first model.

541
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:06,570
obviously there is the option to customize but we've come up with a layout that is

542
00:42:06,570 --> 00:42:14,730
i think pretty applicable to most of our buyers so our plan is what on friday i'm in two days from

543
00:42:14,730 --> 00:42:18,970
now i'm going to be presenting at this conference and i'm going to be showing the picture showing

544
00:42:18,970 --> 00:42:22,870
the renderings and asking for people to take orders and once we get our first three to five

545
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:29,310
orders we'll start our first batch production of the of the librax wow so yeah you can be you can

546
00:42:29,310 --> 00:42:34,150
say anything here this won't be going out before friday or before your your your talk so that's

547
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:40,170
your announcement is it yeah wow so and can i i'll be able to use pick those pictures in the video

548
00:42:40,170 --> 00:42:45,790
version of this i hope yeah absolutely and okay so what do you what do you expect like are you on

549
00:42:45,790 --> 00:42:49,770
actively because i know you've got you've got another life you've got a whole nother life

550
00:42:49,770 --> 00:42:56,750
haven't you you've got and i know that because i think sometimes people like let's say they have

551
00:42:56,750 --> 00:43:02,010
trouble consolidating the two. You're a doctor, right? Yes. And then you're a Seasteader. Yeah.

552
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:08,250
So how does that work then when you start selling Seasteads? Are you looking to get out of the

553
00:43:08,250 --> 00:43:13,350
doctoring game or whatever, or is that something you can run alongside? I mean, I can run them

554
00:43:13,350 --> 00:43:19,470
alongside, to be honest. My private life is what's allowed me to fund this. I've put a lot of money

555
00:43:19,470 --> 00:43:22,930
into developing this product and haven't asked anyone for a dime. I've paid everything out of

556
00:43:22,930 --> 00:43:28,650
my own pocket and I intend to continue doing so because this is a passion of mine. I would like

557
00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:34,130
eventually to start making a profit on these. The first batch is going to be sold basically at cost

558
00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:38,910
because, you know, there's always bugs you need to work out on the first batch. But then my hope is

559
00:43:38,910 --> 00:43:43,370
to eventually start making a profit and first and foremost reinvest that into further iterations and

560
00:43:43,370 --> 00:43:48,010
improvements in our product. Hopefully again, reducing that production cost, scaling up.

561
00:43:48,010 --> 00:43:53,190
uh but you know in the long term if i can sell enough of these that it becomes a viable income

562
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:59,370
for myself um and i can devote myself to this which is my passion then i think you'll see the

563
00:43:59,370 --> 00:44:03,430
other parts of my life scaling back in relation to it and this could become more of a full-time

564
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:12,410
endeavor interesting grant grant remont who who who created the um c pod lives on his yes

565
00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:18,890
so he built it for himself first you know you haven't done that now why is that well i mean

566
00:44:18,890 --> 00:44:23,010
the honest answer is because i'm still young right i mean i i've been fortunate and i have a

567
00:44:23,010 --> 00:44:27,710
relatively good income but i haven't had the decades to build up the savings necessary to

568
00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:32,090
live off of my savings as of yet right i mean i still need to pay my bills i need to pay for my

569
00:44:32,090 --> 00:44:36,230
phone and uh like i said i haven't raised any money from anyone else i don't intend to i want

570
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:40,850
to keep control of this project because i i don't want anyone else dictating how it goes i believe in

571
00:44:40,850 --> 00:44:44,010
and I want to shape it and, you know, see it impact the future.

572
00:44:44,890 --> 00:44:49,310
For me, you know, LibreRx is, like I said, if I can make money, fantastic.

573
00:44:49,550 --> 00:44:52,130
But it's, for me, more than anything, a legacy project.

574
00:44:52,270 --> 00:44:53,670
I want to see this change the world.

575
00:44:54,810 --> 00:44:58,790
And I don't want to have to be beholden to someone who's put in a couple hundred thousand dollars

576
00:44:58,790 --> 00:45:01,230
so that I can make it come to fruition a little bit quicker,

577
00:45:01,290 --> 00:45:03,830
but then want to make a quick buck and, you know, ruin the vision.

578
00:45:04,070 --> 00:45:09,390
So it's a project of passion and I'm committed to making it succeed.

579
00:45:09,390 --> 00:45:13,810
so it means that I've gone a little slower it means I'm doing other things and it also means

580
00:45:13,810 --> 00:45:23,950
that for now I don't have the I don't want to risk having to stop doing what I'm doing

581
00:45:23,950 --> 00:45:29,390
because I could you know sell everything and go all in but then if I run out of runway to get this

582
00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:33,550
thing to market you become between a rock and hard place where it's going a little more

583
00:45:33,550 --> 00:45:36,870
conservatively and you know having an income on the side that you can support I'm not worried

584
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:39,650
about the break-even point and I won't be forced to compromise my values

585
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:42,510
or the mission of the product in order to make it succeed.

586
00:45:42,930 --> 00:45:43,570
Will you, though?

587
00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:44,270
Yes.

588
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:45,110
Will you live on one?

589
00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:45,350
Yes.

590
00:45:45,450 --> 00:45:45,790
You will?

591
00:45:45,890 --> 00:45:46,270
Absolutely.

592
00:45:46,570 --> 00:45:50,570
So describe your ideal life on a Liberax then.

593
00:45:51,090 --> 00:45:57,410
So, you know, there's the idealistic mason who believes that Atlas Island will succeed.

594
00:45:57,710 --> 00:46:00,190
And realistically, I don't know the timeframe.

595
00:46:00,190 --> 00:46:01,870
Sorry, better stop you there.

596
00:46:01,990 --> 00:46:04,450
Just give a quick overview of what Atlas Island is,

597
00:46:04,510 --> 00:46:06,270
because we haven't actually established that.

598
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:09,250
So we talked about it last time, but I'll refresh here.

599
00:46:09,330 --> 00:46:13,050
So Atlas Island is my other project that I started before the Libra Arcs.

600
00:46:13,630 --> 00:46:15,070
It's a seasteading project.

601
00:46:15,650 --> 00:46:20,710
As you may or may not be aware, seasteading is generally considered a broader term.

602
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:22,550
It's not dedicated to private cities.

603
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:25,590
Seasteading can be for any number of ideological reasons.

604
00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:30,870
Atlas Island is, if you take seasteading and you take free cities and they had a baby, that will be Atlas Island.

605
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:37,210
And it's an anarcho-capitalist libertarian seasteading movement designed around private governance and individual sovereignty.

606
00:46:38,050 --> 00:46:40,670
We've created a plan as to how we want to achieve that.

607
00:46:41,410 --> 00:46:49,970
Briefly, it's a five-step plan because, as we talked about earlier, you can't just pick up 100,000 people and drop them in the middle of the ocean and say, city, go.

608
00:46:50,290 --> 00:46:53,610
You need to build things up step by step as cities on land have always done over time.

609
00:46:54,010 --> 00:46:56,650
So the first step is an online community, which we're developing right now.

610
00:46:56,650 --> 00:47:25,330
The second step after that is getting people actually moving on to floating vessels in marinas nearby. And that's where the Libra arc comes in, because there's not many vessels that people want to move on and the ones that they do are too expensive. So the idea with the Libra arcs was to create a platform that can be mass produced and they can get people in our community actually moving on to a floating structure, floating vessel that's mobile, but also that is comfortable, attainable from a financial perspective, and also approachable from a skills perspective for the average person.

611
00:47:25,330 --> 00:47:36,330
So once we get enough people living on these catamarans in marinas all around the world, the idea then is to build a floating marina of some kind, probably using a structure similar to the archipad, actually.

612
00:47:36,770 --> 00:47:40,210
So you can imagine a bunch of archipads put together into a floating platform.

613
00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:50,550
And then at that platform, on top of the platform, you can have a business district with shops and commercial places, restaurants, perhaps some rental apartments for people who can't afford their own vessel.

614
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:54,050
and on the outside of that you can have a whole bunch of docking space for people who have their

615
00:47:54,050 --> 00:47:58,650
their catamarans whether it's a libra arcs or any other vessel that they have and that becomes a

616
00:47:58,650 --> 00:48:05,450
floating proto-seastead in a sheltered area once that develops large enough and it becomes

617
00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:09,470
you know to some degree self-sufficient economically it has a little bit of a circular

618
00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:14,490
economy going on the idea would then be to move that whole floating platform further away from

619
00:48:14,490 --> 00:48:18,410
shore still close enough to shore that you can get there but it then lets you develop that economic

620
00:48:18,410 --> 00:48:24,050
self-sufficiency even further, test your designs out in more adverse conditions. And eventually,

621
00:48:24,410 --> 00:48:27,830
once you've established probably a community of at least a couple thousand people with,

622
00:48:27,830 --> 00:48:31,070
you know, like I said, hundreds of archipads and a bunch of other vessels,

623
00:48:31,630 --> 00:48:35,670
and you've proven that it works and that, you know, for the most part, you're conducting all

624
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:40,150
of your business and your daily interactions with other people on this platform, you can then move

625
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:44,950
that whole community out into international waters. So that's the five stage plan for achieving true

626
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:50,850
seasteading, which is international waters, flags of convenience, multiple platforms. And, you know,

627
00:48:50,910 --> 00:48:55,150
from getting from where we are stage one to stage five could very well take multiple decades,

628
00:48:55,150 --> 00:49:00,870
depending on how things progress. Ultimately, that is my goal to, you know, live on a Libra

629
00:49:00,870 --> 00:49:06,870
arcs and associate with a community of other like-minded individuals in a true seastead in

630
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:11,470
international waters. But I'm also a very practical person. So in the short term, you know, once I

631
00:49:11,470 --> 00:49:16,770
start selling enough of these and I want to make this my full-time job and passion. My plan would

632
00:49:16,770 --> 00:49:21,530
be to move on to one, continue selling them, promoting the movement. And in the interim,

633
00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:25,530
I would probably spend my time, as I mentioned earlier, cruising around different places in the

634
00:49:25,530 --> 00:49:30,430
world, the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, Indo-Pacific, and just exploring the world,

635
00:49:30,550 --> 00:49:34,250
working remotely, selling these products and enjoying life.

636
00:49:34,250 --> 00:49:44,090
it does sound very nice and something that i know a couple of people that do which is relatively

637
00:49:44,090 --> 00:49:50,610
similar but much more localized is living on barges a lot of people travel around the uk

638
00:49:50,610 --> 00:50:06,428
living on barges you can sail barges across to other to um you know like the netherlands and places like that if the sea is good And I can definitely see the attraction there I often I had a very good friend of mine actually

639
00:50:06,568 --> 00:50:13,828
who during the pandemic, you know, was thinking about decamping to a barge.

640
00:50:14,108 --> 00:50:15,168
You're talking a narrow boat, right?

641
00:50:15,288 --> 00:50:17,208
Yeah, we call them barges, but yeah.

642
00:50:17,628 --> 00:50:20,588
Because they're not as big as what you're describing,

643
00:50:20,708 --> 00:50:21,848
because they have to go down canals.

644
00:50:21,848 --> 00:50:24,328
But they are very long and people live on them.

645
00:50:24,328 --> 00:50:26,808
Lots of people in the UK live on them permanently.

646
00:50:27,128 --> 00:50:27,348
Absolutely.

647
00:50:27,348 --> 00:50:31,168
And, you know, you can sail them into Camden Lock in London,

648
00:50:31,368 --> 00:50:33,088
more right in the middle of North London,

649
00:50:33,268 --> 00:50:35,248
and pop out to the shops and stuff,

650
00:50:35,468 --> 00:50:38,628
whereas you could never afford a one-bedroom apartment.

651
00:50:39,448 --> 00:50:41,768
And barges are quite cheap.

652
00:50:42,048 --> 00:50:46,808
You just have the upkeep and the mooring fees occasionally.

653
00:50:47,168 --> 00:50:49,148
This is essentially that concept,

654
00:50:49,268 --> 00:50:50,708
but expanded to something a little more comfortable

655
00:50:50,708 --> 00:50:51,728
and a little more seaworthy,

656
00:50:51,728 --> 00:50:55,068
because those barges really shouldn't leave the canals of the UK.

657
00:50:55,648 --> 00:50:58,508
I wouldn't feel comfortable taking one of those barges across the Atlantic, right?

658
00:50:58,548 --> 00:50:59,948
That's not a vessel designed for it.

659
00:50:59,948 --> 00:51:00,548
I don't think you can.

660
00:51:00,808 --> 00:51:03,868
You can definitely take them across to other parts of Europe, though.

661
00:51:03,928 --> 00:51:05,348
When you have the right weather window, yeah.

662
00:51:06,388 --> 00:51:09,288
But actually, the UK is a little bit of an outlier in this.

663
00:51:09,288 --> 00:51:14,208
The rest of Europe has an inland waterway system designed around fixed sizes,

664
00:51:14,428 --> 00:51:15,888
and that was one of the design parameters.

665
00:51:16,028 --> 00:51:18,748
That's why we chose 9 meters wide and less than 20 meters long,

666
00:51:18,748 --> 00:51:22,288
because that means that this vessel can get into almost every major European city.

667
00:51:22,448 --> 00:51:26,328
So what people do in the UK with narrowboats, you could do this in Europe

668
00:51:26,328 --> 00:51:29,208
or along the Great Loop in America with the Libra Arcs.

669
00:51:29,328 --> 00:51:31,228
So it is designed that if you want to live that lifestyle

670
00:51:31,228 --> 00:51:33,568
and just sail around inland waters in Europe and North America,

671
00:51:33,788 --> 00:51:35,588
you're absolutely able to do that with this boat.

672
00:51:36,028 --> 00:51:39,188
There's going to be a bit of cultural friction there, isn't there,

673
00:51:39,188 --> 00:51:43,188
between the people that live on narrowboats when they start seeing it.

674
00:51:43,188 --> 00:51:46,748
I can imagine the horror that they would see these,

675
00:51:46,748 --> 00:51:50,828
in the sense that I think a lot of people would class,

676
00:51:51,288 --> 00:51:53,728
some people that live in RVs would say it's a bit crass.

677
00:51:54,048 --> 00:51:58,508
You know, like I bet you that you get a similar cultural divide on the sea.

678
00:51:58,628 --> 00:52:01,468
You could, but also there's probably not going to be much overlap.

679
00:52:01,468 --> 00:52:03,968
Like these boats are not going to fit into the canals in the UK.

680
00:52:04,228 --> 00:52:05,308
They're too wide for that.

681
00:52:05,628 --> 00:52:06,708
But I mean in France.

682
00:52:07,188 --> 00:52:07,768
In France, though.

683
00:52:07,968 --> 00:52:09,368
The canals aren't that big in France.

684
00:52:09,528 --> 00:52:11,268
Oh, they're not ginormous.

685
00:52:11,788 --> 00:52:13,448
They're not ginormous, but most,

686
00:52:13,448 --> 00:52:20,228
So the canals that are the inland waterways that this is designed for are also used for industrial purposes.

687
00:52:20,448 --> 00:52:22,368
So it's not like it's just a recreational canal.

688
00:52:22,448 --> 00:52:29,048
These are things that are taking, you know, multi 100 foot long barges with containers and bulk cargo.

689
00:52:29,048 --> 00:52:34,708
So these would actually be some of the smaller vessels relative to what else is traveling on these waterways already.

690
00:52:34,708 --> 00:52:45,368
Yeah, Europe is very much pivoting towards trying to move traffic onto the waterways, which is why there's an active effort to expand these waterways, really for freight purposes.

691
00:52:45,568 --> 00:52:48,068
But it also means that it works out perfectly with our time.

692
00:52:48,068 --> 00:52:50,648
Why is there a movement to move back onto the water then?

693
00:52:50,728 --> 00:52:53,488
That seems, I mean, it would be back, wouldn't it?

694
00:52:53,488 --> 00:52:56,888
Because there was a time when almost everything was moved by water.

695
00:52:56,888 --> 00:53:05,508
I mean, I'm not an expert in European politics, but I think their perspective is that it's more energy efficient to move things by water than by rail or road.

696
00:53:05,628 --> 00:53:12,308
So their idea is to, you know, first of all, decongest the rails and the roads, but also to be more potentially environmentally friendly, I guess.

697
00:53:13,128 --> 00:53:13,688
Is it though?

698
00:53:14,508 --> 00:53:14,868
I mean.

699
00:53:15,128 --> 00:53:15,388
Yeah.

700
00:53:15,468 --> 00:53:21,068
I mean, actually shipping by water is one of the most energy efficient ways to ship things.

701
00:53:21,168 --> 00:53:21,648
Is that right?

702
00:53:21,648 --> 00:53:21,868
Yeah.

703
00:53:21,948 --> 00:53:23,848
That's why you see the container ships.

704
00:53:24,128 --> 00:53:26,728
They don't bring a container ship to the nearest land possible.

705
00:53:26,728 --> 00:53:30,348
they bring a container ship as far inland as they'll be able to get it because it's actually

706
00:53:30,348 --> 00:53:34,408
much cheaper to just leave things on the ship and go as close as possible i mean that's why you have

707
00:53:34,408 --> 00:53:38,828
the suez canal and the panama canal right you could have said let's unload the ship here and

708
00:53:38,828 --> 00:53:43,988
put it on rail and bring it to china by rail uh or you know across uh across north america by rail

709
00:53:43,988 --> 00:53:48,728
but it's easier and more efficient to keep it going by water water is a fantastic method to

710
00:53:48,728 --> 00:53:58,328
move bulk cargo and anything. So describe your perfect sort of like yearly kind of,

711
00:53:58,928 --> 00:54:05,488
say you're living on a Liberax. Is it a Liberax 64, did you call it? Yeah. Is that the model,

712
00:54:05,488 --> 00:54:09,548
64? Yeah, the 64 because it's 64 feet long. That's generally how boats are modeled.

713
00:54:09,908 --> 00:54:16,888
Okay. Describe your perfect year. I want people to start imagining this, you know,

714
00:54:16,888 --> 00:54:23,968
what it could be because i know that there are currently uh amongst the super wealthy who have

715
00:54:23,968 --> 00:54:29,628
large yachts there's a route that they tend to travel around the world and a lot of it's to do

716
00:54:29,628 --> 00:54:34,348
with um events that they go to in different countries but but what would the what would

717
00:54:34,348 --> 00:54:41,228
the liberax kind of buyer be potentially doing i know you've mentioned a few sort of european

718
00:54:41,228 --> 00:54:47,648
cities and stuff? Yeah, I think it really depends on what your goals are. I think for me, I generally

719
00:54:47,648 --> 00:54:53,428
like spending a week or two in each place. So in the summer, I would sail along the coast of the

720
00:54:53,428 --> 00:54:58,348
Mediterranean for the most part. You can start in Spain and continue along to France and Italy,

721
00:54:58,628 --> 00:55:03,928
go along the coast, get to Greece, sail around the Greek islands. And basically what I would do is

722
00:55:03,928 --> 00:55:08,328
each year I would look for what's an interesting city or a port that I want to stop at. And you can

723
00:55:08,328 --> 00:55:12,188
stop at each of those ports for a week or two weeks. Obviously during the day you can still do

724
00:55:12,188 --> 00:55:16,348
your work. You're going to have satellite internet on the vessel so you have your office on board.

725
00:55:16,788 --> 00:55:20,948
But then you can take your family and a couple nights a week or every night depending on how

726
00:55:20,948 --> 00:55:25,388
you want to live you go into the city, you walk around, you see the sights, maybe do something

727
00:55:25,388 --> 00:55:30,308
touristy, have a nice meal and on the weekends you can do a little road trip. You can leave the

728
00:55:30,308 --> 00:55:35,928
vessel parked and rent a car and drive a little bit further inland and really just explore all

729
00:55:35,928 --> 00:55:42,368
the different parts of europe in say somewhere like the med mediterranean i i is it necessary to

730
00:55:42,368 --> 00:55:49,048
to come into a port or come into a or are you talking about just offshoring yeah yeah so there's

731
00:55:49,048 --> 00:55:54,848
multiple options depending on how much money you want to spend and you know what you value um the

732
00:55:54,848 --> 00:55:59,208
the cheapest thing is as long as you find areas that you're allowed to anchor you can just drop

733
00:55:59,208 --> 00:56:04,028
your anchor because you have solar power on the roof you have no need to plug into anything ample

734
00:56:04,028 --> 00:56:08,288
power not only to power your vessel but also for all your domestic needs you could run you know

735
00:56:08,288 --> 00:56:12,448
your tv your air conditioning day and night all day every day and not worry about running out of

736
00:56:12,448 --> 00:56:17,448
electricity we also have dual water generator water makers on board so no need to fill up on

737
00:56:17,448 --> 00:56:22,588
water we have wastewater processing so no need to empty your tanks either so you can absolutely live

738
00:56:22,588 --> 00:56:27,088
at anchor permanently full-time and moving from anchorage to anchorage and then when you want to

739
00:56:27,088 --> 00:56:31,628
go inshore you can drop the the dinghy which is a small little boat off the back and sail in and

740
00:56:31,628 --> 00:56:37,288
and just more up that dinghy going, you know, now in terms of stepping up in terms of cost,

741
00:56:37,288 --> 00:56:40,268
but also potentially more convenience, you can, instead of dropping anchor, you can use a mooring

742
00:56:40,268 --> 00:56:45,408
field, which is where they have permanent mooring balls that you can pick up. It's a little bit more

743
00:56:45,408 --> 00:56:51,748
stable, a little bit less hassle. And then the most expensive, but also most convenient is you

744
00:56:51,748 --> 00:56:57,748
can go into a port either every day or on certain days when you want and, and rent a slip and more

745
00:56:57,748 --> 00:57:01,688
up into the slip and then you have access to shore power you have access to all the shore facilities

746
00:57:01,688 --> 00:57:08,748
and you can literally just walk off your boat onto the dock and and go into town and once again my my

747
00:57:08,748 --> 00:57:14,108
when i think about these things i'm always thinking about bad weather and what that would mean

748
00:57:14,108 --> 00:57:20,588
and would it become a nightmare and etc tell me something for example the mediterranean

749
00:57:20,588 --> 00:57:27,368
do you get bad seas in the mediterranean you absolutely can but usually it's quite seasonal

750
00:57:27,368 --> 00:57:32,528
it's you know more so in the winter that you get the bad weather and also again as we as i mentioned

751
00:57:32,528 --> 00:57:36,508
there are weather forecasts so if you see that there's bad weather coming that may be the day

752
00:57:36,508 --> 00:57:39,548
that you decide okay well there's a really bad storm coming i don't want to be an anchorage here

753
00:57:39,548 --> 00:57:43,148
even though i'm safe it might not be the most comfortable thing to be swinging back and forth

754
00:57:43,148 --> 00:57:48,328
on your anchor so if you see that there's a bad storm coming you you can either go into a protected

755
00:57:48,328 --> 00:57:51,908
harbor um you know where there's a small little opening that prevents the weather from getting in

756
00:57:51,908 --> 00:57:56,228
there or you could even go into a port or a marina and then rent a slip and then you're fully

757
00:57:56,228 --> 00:58:00,568
you know, tied up to the slip and nice and secure and have the ability to get on and off

758
00:58:00,568 --> 00:58:02,388
without worrying about the seas.

759
00:58:02,388 --> 00:58:07,348
So it's really just a question of what you're comfortable with, planning around the weather

760
00:58:07,348 --> 00:58:11,388
and deciding how much you want to avoid it versus riding it out.

761
00:58:11,388 --> 00:58:25,606
The thing that most people don understand about boats is when we design boats we have things we design for One of them is called stability and there a Naval architect on YouTube He made a kind of a little funny video He said that stability is not what people think of when they buy a boat

762
00:58:25,686 --> 00:58:27,866
When people buy a boat, they think of something called seakeeping,

763
00:58:27,946 --> 00:58:30,586
which is how comfortable the boat is in the conditions.

764
00:58:31,846 --> 00:58:35,446
And given that it's a, you know, 64 foot long catamaran,

765
00:58:35,986 --> 00:58:39,586
this boat will be among the most comfortable of any that you can own

766
00:58:39,586 --> 00:58:42,986
on a personal level in conditions, just because it's large and wide.

767
00:58:42,986 --> 00:58:50,786
And it's, you know, the bigger the boat and the wider it is, the better it handles waves because it averages things out and it keeps them calm.

768
00:58:51,146 --> 00:58:56,626
But that being said, when we talk about stability, catamarans are exceptionally stable vessels.

769
00:58:56,926 --> 00:59:05,466
In fact, the only reason catamarans ever run into trouble for the most part is because they have too much sail up and the wind pushes the boat over.

770
00:59:05,766 --> 00:59:09,786
But because our boat doesn't have a sail on top of it, you don't have that concern.

771
00:59:09,786 --> 00:59:16,346
so there is no reason that the libra arc should ever become unsafe it should always be stable it

772
00:59:16,346 --> 00:59:20,186
may not be comfortable if you have 20 meter waves you're going to have the boat go up and down over

773
00:59:20,186 --> 00:59:24,086
those waves and you'll have some angling and you're going side to side the boat will always

774
00:59:24,086 --> 00:59:29,846
be safe to live on it's just a question of what you're comfortable with so um yeah to circle back

775
00:59:29,846 --> 00:59:33,886
to that and that question it really is just a question of your comfort level and some people

776
00:59:33,886 --> 00:59:38,126
may have better sea legs and they may say oh you know three meter waves i'm rocking back and forth

777
00:59:38,126 --> 00:59:43,306
a little bit. Maybe I can't leave glasses on the table all night long because they'll slide back

778
00:59:43,306 --> 00:59:47,126
and forth, but I'm okay with that. Other people may not tolerate that and they may say, well,

779
00:59:47,226 --> 00:59:50,526
you know what, I'll spend the 50 or a hundred dollars. I'm going to bring it into a marina

780
00:59:50,526 --> 00:59:54,766
for these few nights because I don't want to be uncomfortable like that. So it really depends on

781
00:59:54,766 --> 01:00:00,086
on what you do, what you tolerate. I think though, the best thing is to plan your general travels

782
01:00:00,086 --> 01:00:04,486
around the weather patterns because the big storms are generally fairly predictable and you can work

783
01:00:04,486 --> 01:00:08,086
work to avoid them. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the Caribbean, for example, during hurricane

784
01:00:08,086 --> 01:00:12,166
season, right? That's just not a good plan. Again, the boat would probably survive it if it didn't

785
01:00:12,166 --> 01:00:16,666
get washed on the shore, but why do that, right? I mean, you have the ability to move unlike the

786
01:00:16,666 --> 01:00:20,386
other seasteading projects, so you might as well plan your life around being where the weather is

787
01:00:20,386 --> 01:00:30,546
good at all times. Amazing. And like you say, insurance-wise, it's simple. Insurers understand.

788
01:00:30,546 --> 01:00:32,826
Do you think you could get a mortgage for one of these?

789
01:00:33,546 --> 01:00:34,506
I think you could.

790
01:00:35,586 --> 01:00:36,986
It's not as easy as a house.

791
01:00:37,026 --> 01:00:38,206
You're going to need a bigger down payment,

792
01:00:38,406 --> 01:00:40,506
but you can get mortgages on boats.

793
01:00:42,026 --> 01:00:44,666
I know that some of the other companies

794
01:00:44,666 --> 01:00:46,506
have been looking at other options

795
01:00:46,506 --> 01:00:48,606
for mortgaging things or fractional ownership.

796
01:00:50,446 --> 01:00:51,826
It's certainly a possibility.

797
01:00:52,446 --> 01:00:54,766
And if you have insurance, it becomes a lot more viable.

798
01:00:54,886 --> 01:00:55,446
And like I said,

799
01:00:56,026 --> 01:00:59,026
I'm talking to you about seasteading right now.

800
01:00:59,026 --> 01:01:04,686
I suspect that 80 to 90% of our sales will not be to seasteaders, right? It'll be to just

801
01:01:04,686 --> 01:01:10,006
retirees, digital nomads who want to live a life on the water and potentially don't even have any

802
01:01:10,006 --> 01:01:14,506
political ideology, but just value the lifestyle. And for them and for the insurance companies,

803
01:01:14,946 --> 01:01:18,626
we won't mention anything about seasteading. This is just simply a comfortable catamaran that is

804
01:01:18,626 --> 01:01:23,466
affordable and comfortable to live on, which makes it super simple from a flagging and an

805
01:01:23,466 --> 01:01:26,886
insurance perspective. And just like any other boat, you can mortgage it the same way.

806
01:01:26,886 --> 01:01:33,446
So you think your major buyer is going to be a digital nomad or just...

807
01:01:33,446 --> 01:01:34,306
Or a retiree, yeah.

808
01:01:35,366 --> 01:01:37,066
So where do you find these people?

809
01:01:37,226 --> 01:01:40,326
How do you reach those kind of people?

810
01:01:40,406 --> 01:01:41,546
That's a great question.

811
01:01:41,666 --> 01:01:43,626
That's something that we're working through right now.

812
01:01:44,466 --> 01:01:50,726
My plan, my goal is, like I said, we're launching this boat for sale in the next couple of days.

813
01:01:51,646 --> 01:01:55,786
And my hope would be that the first three to five people who buy the first batch of boats,

814
01:01:55,786 --> 01:02:00,206
number one are super passionate about it but number two represent a somewhat diverse spectrum

815
01:02:00,206 --> 01:02:04,086
of individuals i've already talked to a few individuals who may be interested and the idea

816
01:02:04,086 --> 01:02:08,186
is it will like i said to some degree be a beta test working out the kinks which is why we're not

817
01:02:08,186 --> 01:02:11,926
going to take any profit we're going to release the first few models at cost to those individuals

818
01:02:11,926 --> 01:02:16,186
but also with the caveat that we want those individuals to be almost brand ambassadors

819
01:02:16,186 --> 01:02:21,006
ideally they can have you know a youtube channel or a podcast and they can document their adventures

820
01:02:21,006 --> 01:02:24,926
if you look at youtube there's that you know there's there's countless channels of people

821
01:02:24,926 --> 01:02:30,786
sailing right so if i can get three to five people who document their life on librax not only does

822
01:02:30,786 --> 01:02:34,226
it reach the sailing community but then by youtube's algorithms reach out to people who are

823
01:02:34,226 --> 01:02:38,366
interested in that but maybe not comfortable with the sailing part of it with the you know living in

824
01:02:38,366 --> 01:02:43,226
cramped quarters and that's how we're going to do it by having brand ambassadors and probably a

825
01:02:43,226 --> 01:02:46,906
referral or affiliate program where they can take a cut of the commission of sales that they make to

826
01:02:46,906 --> 01:02:53,406
their followers it's definitely something i've noticed has taken off recently probably in the

827
01:02:53,406 --> 01:03:00,426
last two or three years probably a pandemic thing again is channels of normally pretty good looking

828
01:03:00,426 --> 01:03:06,426
husband and wife maybe a dog because they never seem to have actual kids yeah yeah living and

829
01:03:06,426 --> 01:03:12,246
our journey around the world or here we are coming into this island or that and like we'll get the

830
01:03:12,246 --> 01:03:17,066
sailing people we'll also get the rv people we'll get the digital nomad people so we need we're

831
01:03:17,066 --> 01:03:21,046
targeting to have you know someone who whose lifestyle represents each of these people right

832
01:03:21,046 --> 01:03:25,506
obviously there will be the hardcore seasteader libertarian but there will just be that you know

833
01:03:25,506 --> 01:03:30,026
like you said young uh good-looking couple who wants to travel the world and doesn't want the

834
01:03:30,026 --> 01:03:33,746
hassle of pulling up and down sails and wants the convenience of being able to run their

835
01:03:33,746 --> 01:03:38,706
conditioning 24 7 and not worry about it because on most sailboats you do think about management of

836
01:03:38,706 --> 01:03:43,366
power you think of management of water so it's someone who doesn't want to make compromises

837
01:03:43,366 --> 01:03:48,206
and is maybe not so much in it for the sport as the lifestyle but you're not going to make a

838
01:03:48,206 --> 01:03:54,806
prototype an unsolved prototype you're only going to start production when it's yeah each unit will

839
01:03:54,806 --> 01:04:00,046
be built to order um like i said we have a standard floor plan we have a standard layout we've got all

840
01:04:00,046 --> 01:04:05,606
the specs done uh so if someone came and said you know here's 750 000 i'm ready for you to start

841
01:04:05,606 --> 01:04:10,586
building it we could start laying uh aluminum in the next couple months and have it done probably

842
01:04:10,586 --> 01:04:16,946
within one year so uh yeah it will be initially um built to order because again i'm self-funding i

843
01:04:16,946 --> 01:04:20,846
don't want to spend seven million dollars to build 10 units and then try to sell them afterwards

844
01:04:20,846 --> 01:04:24,266
but eventually once we've got the production line up and running and we've done our first

845
01:04:24,266 --> 01:04:28,566
couple dozen then we will probably have a small inventory of ones available for sale that are

846
01:04:28,566 --> 01:04:35,786
pre-built it's very exciting really i mean joe joe's joe quirk's been getting quite excited about

847
01:04:35,786 --> 01:04:41,926
everything recently he's saying he thinks that seasteading has reached a new paradigm absolutely

848
01:04:41,926 --> 01:04:43,126
You think so as well?

849
01:04:43,246 --> 01:04:43,386
Yeah.

850
01:04:43,826 --> 01:04:50,666
I'm very passionate about our project, but I'm also very excited about Mitchell's project with the ArkPad, right?

851
01:04:50,706 --> 01:04:55,606
I think our project is a proto-SeaStead and will work well in SeaSteads.

852
01:04:55,626 --> 01:05:07,466
But I think when you combine LibraArcs with the ArkPad, you now have a platform for large floating businesses and you have a platform for families to live on vessels that can then go and patronize those businesses.

853
01:05:07,466 --> 01:05:08,806
Do you know what?

854
01:05:08,806 --> 01:05:19,546
I mean, I'm trying to think of all the things that you should, that would be good for you to do, because I'm a critic in my mind.

855
01:05:20,066 --> 01:05:22,766
Every time you say something, I'm thinking, yeah, but what about this?

856
01:05:22,806 --> 01:05:23,386
But what about this?

857
01:05:23,966 --> 01:05:32,846
That's the big battle I think you have, is convincing people that living on water is not scary, it's not bad, it's not weird.

858
01:05:32,846 --> 01:05:43,806
It's not. And also, it's convincing the people who sail boats that living in something that looks more like a house is a good idea as well.

859
01:05:44,026 --> 01:05:44,646
So it's...

860
01:05:44,646 --> 01:05:47,786
I mean, I'm going to be honest. I'm not targeting that market, right?

861
01:05:47,806 --> 01:05:56,046
If someone wants to sail and they love pulling up and down their canvas and they like the wind tipping them left, you know, important starboard, they're not my target market, right?

862
01:05:56,066 --> 01:05:59,406
They're going to buy their catamarans with a sail on top. Fantastic. Good for them.

863
01:05:59,406 --> 01:06:04,546
but that is such a small portion of the population we're targeting the population who wants mobility

864
01:06:04,546 --> 01:06:09,506
who maybe likes the idea of an rv but wants more space and more flexibility to go more places

865
01:06:09,506 --> 01:06:16,406
so that's really our market right there so would you target actual rv people would you go to

866
01:06:16,406 --> 01:06:20,466
rv conventions for example do you think do you think there's any crossover there

867
01:06:20,466 --> 01:06:27,006
i mean because like i'm saying a lot of our fees are turning into mobile houses they're insane

868
01:06:27,006 --> 01:06:27,846
some of them.

869
01:06:27,846 --> 01:06:31,606
You know, I literally, it's a little personal passion

870
01:06:31,606 --> 01:06:33,806
of mine is just watching YouTube videos

871
01:06:33,806 --> 01:06:37,006
and people showing you around their ridiculous RV

872
01:06:37,006 --> 01:06:38,306
that's just off the, you know.

873
01:06:38,306 --> 01:06:39,966
I think that's the answer there, right?

874
01:06:39,984 --> 01:06:41,424
I mean, I'm one person.

875
01:06:41,504 --> 01:06:42,644
I have some people working for me,

876
01:06:42,724 --> 01:06:44,724
but there's so many RV shows

877
01:06:44,724 --> 01:06:45,704
and boat shows around the world.

878
01:06:45,864 --> 01:06:47,604
For now, we just don't have the scale for that.

879
01:06:47,664 --> 01:06:48,984
Maybe 10 years down the line

880
01:06:48,984 --> 01:06:50,644
when we have a bunch of these available,

881
01:06:50,644 --> 01:06:51,844
we can bring them to these shows.

882
01:06:51,944 --> 01:06:54,024
But I think for now, the thing is YouTube

883
01:06:54,024 --> 01:06:55,324
and other online platforms

884
01:06:55,324 --> 01:06:57,384
is gonna be our means to get the message out

885
01:06:57,384 --> 01:06:58,964
and having, like I said, three to five people

886
01:06:58,964 --> 01:07:00,464
who are documenting their life,

887
01:07:00,784 --> 01:07:02,624
showing, hey, you know, there's a storm,

888
01:07:02,824 --> 01:07:03,984
but I'm still eating my meal.

889
01:07:04,064 --> 01:07:05,384
I still have my glasses on the table.

890
01:07:05,544 --> 01:07:06,164
Everything's good.

891
01:07:06,504 --> 01:07:07,124
I'm comfortable.

892
01:07:07,844 --> 01:07:09,864
I wasn't a sailor a year ago

893
01:07:09,864 --> 01:07:11,224
and now I'm living this life and I love it.

894
01:07:11,264 --> 01:07:13,064
I think that's going to be the biggest sales pitch for us.

895
01:07:13,704 --> 01:07:15,024
You're absolutely right there.

896
01:07:15,104 --> 01:07:17,444
That would be something that, you know,

897
01:07:17,464 --> 01:07:19,024
I've talked about this for three years

898
01:07:19,024 --> 01:07:22,284
and I still wonder about those things.

899
01:07:22,784 --> 01:07:25,884
And I've seen all the evidence to the contrary

900
01:07:25,884 --> 01:07:27,444
and I still wonder.

901
01:07:27,584 --> 01:07:29,824
And I think partly it's because like, you know,

902
01:07:29,864 --> 01:07:32,164
I live in a very old solid house

903
01:07:32,164 --> 01:07:34,704
and when there's a massive storm outside,

904
01:07:34,704 --> 01:07:37,124
I still worry about what am I going to have to fix

905
01:07:37,124 --> 01:07:37,604
in the morning?

906
01:07:38,044 --> 01:07:39,304
You know, what's going to blow off the roof?

907
01:07:39,304 --> 01:07:45,964
what's going to you know let alone if i was on the water and i wasn't an experienced sailor or

908
01:07:45,964 --> 01:07:50,724
whatever you know yeah but on the other hand um you know i have a background in engineering as well

909
01:07:50,724 --> 01:07:56,704
and what i would say is that houses seem solid because they have bricks on the outside and maybe

910
01:07:56,704 --> 01:08:01,004
in europe they're a little bit more solid but most houses in north america are just pieces of stick

911
01:08:01,004 --> 01:08:06,324
yes put up vertically with a small flat piece of wood between them that's very thin right and then

912
01:08:06,324 --> 01:08:10,584
you have some insulation and maybe you put some siding or some brick on the outside and they're

913
01:08:10,584 --> 01:08:14,524
you know they're all built in a haphazard manner on site there's nothing that's standardized

914
01:08:14,524 --> 01:08:19,324
if you've ever seen a house construct you see oh well this is crooked okay well we'll just shave

915
01:08:19,324 --> 01:08:24,404
that down a bit slap some mud or tape on here you know add a little plaster there you know shimmy it

916
01:08:24,404 --> 01:08:29,804
all okay it looks good enough now right but these boats are precision engineered they're going to

917
01:08:29,804 --> 01:08:34,224
be designed and they're going to be built in a factory cut with cnc machines and the entire

918
01:08:34,224 --> 01:08:37,764
structure is out of aluminum so you have a precision piece of aluminum that is you know

919
01:08:37,764 --> 01:08:42,464
completely enclosing everything welded together solid you know i think that this is going to be

920
01:08:42,464 --> 01:08:48,004
stronger and more sturdy than any standard house that you'll have built yeah that that that wooden

921
01:08:48,004 --> 01:08:52,304
house thing is an american thing i was just thinking in my own house our walls are almost

922
01:08:52,304 --> 01:08:57,244
a meter thick stone yeah not solid stone there's a hole at the gap in the middle but but i still

923
01:08:57,244 --> 01:09:02,344
worry about the tiles flying off the roof in a in a storm or something yeah and again that's again

924
01:09:02,344 --> 01:09:05,784
the way houses are built right this thing the entire outside is a solid piece of aluminum

925
01:09:05,784 --> 01:09:12,544
i mean you have six millimeters of aluminum uh or whatever a quarter inch aluminum not much is

926
01:09:12,544 --> 01:09:16,804
going to happen to that i mean maybe if you have a hurry you know a tornado and a and a piece of a

927
01:09:16,804 --> 01:09:21,104
metal rod goes and you know hits the side but for the most part what's going to happen to a solid

928
01:09:21,104 --> 01:09:32,044
box of aluminum not much yeah quite amazing really i mean can i the final couple of questions i've

929
01:09:32,044 --> 01:09:39,264
got um you're quite ideologically driven as well aren't you really you know as most people are in

930
01:09:39,264 --> 01:09:46,364
this kind of world but um but where does that fit in when you start marketing these things is that

931
01:09:46,364 --> 01:09:53,624
an important aspect of it or no no i mean for me i know in all honesty you know i have my ideological

932
01:09:53,624 --> 01:09:59,744
beliefs um but i think this is also something that differentiates atlas island um from a couple

933
01:09:59,744 --> 01:10:03,904
other projects, right? We're not trying to claim that we're going to have a government and we're

934
01:10:03,904 --> 01:10:07,764
going to have, you know, elections, we're going to be this libertarian paradise. What we're trying

935
01:10:07,764 --> 01:10:13,864
to do is look at, practically speaking, how does the world work and identify how do we achieve the

936
01:10:13,864 --> 01:10:17,704
best lifestyle and the best freedom using that existing framework. I don't think I'm going to

937
01:10:17,704 --> 01:10:21,484
convince people to change their political views. I'm not going to convince, you know, America to

938
01:10:21,484 --> 01:10:27,084
elect an anarcho-capitalist or libertarian, right? It's not going to happen, much less so in Canada

939
01:10:27,084 --> 01:10:32,144
or Europe, right? This is just not going to happen. So the question is, people who value freedom and

940
01:10:32,144 --> 01:10:37,224
value that, do you want to spend your life fighting a political process? We're almost certainly going

941
01:10:37,224 --> 01:10:41,344
to lose because the vast majority of people want to be told to how to live their life? Or do you

942
01:10:41,344 --> 01:10:45,884
want to create a system where you can opt out and vote with your vote and just choose to live your

943
01:10:45,884 --> 01:10:51,564
life as you desire? So yes, the reason why this came into existence was my belief in freedom and

944
01:10:51,564 --> 01:10:59,084
liberty. But from a practical sense, I don't care what people who buy it profess on a political or

945
01:10:59,084 --> 01:11:03,104
ideological sense. What I care about is that in a practical sense, they're looking for freedom

946
01:11:03,104 --> 01:11:07,564
and a good quality of life and the autonomy to do what they want and go where they want and be

947
01:11:07,564 --> 01:11:11,424
where they want and not be bothered by other people. And whether they say they're libertarian

948
01:11:11,424 --> 01:11:15,604
and anarcho-capitalist or whether they say that they're liberals or apolitical, it doesn't matter

949
01:11:15,604 --> 01:11:19,264
to me, right? I'm not going to be saying this is a libertarian vote. I'm saying this is a vote for

950
01:11:19,264 --> 01:11:23,924
people who value freedom and independence and having a good life and being able to be sovereign

951
01:11:23,924 --> 01:11:27,184
over your own life and live how you choose to live where you choose to live.

952
01:11:28,304 --> 01:11:30,024
That's, isn't that libertarian?

953
01:11:30,844 --> 01:11:33,304
Well, we call that libertarian. So, okay.

954
01:11:33,464 --> 01:11:35,364
I know what you mean though. I'm being facetious.

955
01:11:35,744 --> 01:11:38,704
I'll tell you, I'll tell you, yeah, no, but I'll tell you an analogy here that's, you know,

956
01:11:38,744 --> 01:11:43,184
that's very applicable. So, you know, in Honduras, they have a couple of these special zones,

957
01:11:43,264 --> 01:11:48,304
right? Prospera has obviously marketed itself as the libertarian zone, right? Morazon is the

958
01:11:48,304 --> 01:11:53,764
blue collar worker zone. And one of the people who helps to run Morazon, I was talking to them,

959
01:11:53,784 --> 01:11:57,804
I said, what's, you know, your biggest challenge with Morazon? And they said, my biggest challenge

960
01:11:57,804 --> 01:12:03,204
is convincing these blue collar Hondurans to pay their 5% tax or whatever it is in the zone.

961
01:12:03,204 --> 01:12:08,244
I said, what do you mean? Like outside the zone, they have to pay 30 or 40% tax. He says, yeah,

962
01:12:08,884 --> 01:12:14,444
but they don't. So, you know, these people who may have elected a socialist government

963
01:12:14,444 --> 01:12:17,004
And in practical sense, they just don't pay their taxes, right?

964
01:12:17,044 --> 01:12:20,844
I think there's a lot of people who ideologically don't identify it.

965
01:12:20,864 --> 01:12:24,424
But when it comes down to it, if people have the choice and they can choose to keep money

966
01:12:24,424 --> 01:12:27,964
for themselves, they can choose to be free, even if they claim that they're, even if people

967
01:12:27,964 --> 01:12:31,004
claim that they're, you know, communist or socialist, most people will make the choice

968
01:12:31,004 --> 01:12:32,544
that benefits them in the end of the day.

969
01:12:32,744 --> 01:12:33,964
And that's what we're banking on.

970
01:12:34,104 --> 01:12:37,524
Not the political belief, but based on people looking out for their own interests and doing

971
01:12:37,524 --> 01:12:38,624
what's best for them and their family.

972
01:12:38,624 --> 01:12:45,124
Well, that's the other thing about Morazon that Mark Edge sort of made me realize is

973
01:12:45,124 --> 01:12:51,864
it's a libertarian paradise with no libertarians in it. Apart from possibly Joyce and Alex.

974
01:12:51,864 --> 01:13:04,326
Yeah And this brings us back to cruise ships right This is how we started our conversation Cruise ships are a libertarian paradise but people don go to cruise ships because they believe in libertarianism They go because it offers a better service

975
01:13:04,326 --> 01:13:06,746
and a better quality of life at a lower price.

976
01:13:07,226 --> 01:13:07,966
And at the end of the day,

977
01:13:08,366 --> 01:13:10,386
I don't care what we say, I care what we do.

978
01:13:10,646 --> 01:13:13,046
And if we tell everyone that we're not political at all

979
01:13:13,046 --> 01:13:14,606
and we don't mention anything about politics,

980
01:13:14,606 --> 01:13:16,966
but we create a system where everyone opts out

981
01:13:16,966 --> 01:13:18,646
and everyone chooses to live by private government

982
01:13:18,646 --> 01:13:20,826
and everyone's quality of life improves because of that,

983
01:13:20,886 --> 01:13:21,586
then I think we've won.

984
01:13:22,906 --> 01:13:46,966
Amen to that. Yeah. And nicely brought round four circle as well. You're a pro. Thank you for that. Yeah, great. Thanks for coming in. That's super exciting. I think I really do. I think I've told you this off camera. I feel like not only seasteading, but I think the whole movement is cranking up a notch at the moment.

985
01:13:46,966 --> 01:13:51,086
there's a lot of new projects coming online there's a lot of people announcing new projects

986
01:13:51,086 --> 01:13:56,326
even at this conference and there's a lot that we can't announce that seem to be happening and

987
01:13:56,326 --> 01:14:02,286
they're all as i was mentioning this morning in another interview they're all on a spectrum

988
01:14:02,286 --> 01:14:08,166
of freedom i think you're you're right on the kind of almost self-sovereign end absolutely

989
01:14:08,166 --> 01:14:14,806
really at the at the far yes self-sovereign end yeah and and like i said i mean we're not like i

990
01:14:14,806 --> 01:14:18,846
will market it that way here. But for the average person, I just market it as freedom and independence

991
01:14:18,846 --> 01:14:22,426
to live your life as you choose, right? The right to choose how you want to live your life.

992
01:14:22,686 --> 01:14:26,406
And you'll see in my presentation at this conference, actually, that that is one of my

993
01:14:26,406 --> 01:14:30,106
slides, I think is titled Your Sovereign Home. That's how we're, you know, we're selling this.

994
01:14:30,166 --> 01:14:34,726
It's for the sovereign individual who wants to be truly independent. You know, you've cut ties

995
01:14:34,726 --> 01:14:40,086
with the banks, you've cut ties with big tech, you've cut ties with your government. Now you can

996
01:14:40,086 --> 01:14:43,846
cut ties with, you know, the land-based society and have the ability to be truly independent.

997
01:14:43,846 --> 01:14:46,206
And this is the last piece in the puzzle for the sovereign individual, right?

998
01:14:46,246 --> 01:14:48,286
You can have your cryptocurrency or your gold.

999
01:14:48,366 --> 01:14:50,466
You can have all your digital nomadism.

1000
01:14:50,926 --> 01:14:56,146
But until now, people have needed to interact with the state by renting or buying a place to live.

1001
01:14:56,146 --> 01:15:00,206
Because as much as you say you're a digital nomad, you still live in the physical world.

1002
01:15:00,346 --> 01:15:08,646
This allows you to cut that final tie, untether yourself from society and be truly self-sovereign and a sovereign individual, sovereign family.

1003
01:15:08,826 --> 01:15:13,826
I can see a really great, this is my marketing head just clicked into games.

1004
01:15:13,846 --> 01:15:18,046
when you you just all the way you're describing it you've obviously thought this through well

1005
01:15:18,046 --> 01:15:24,886
cutting ties with you know you know there were a lot of a lot of really good memes there and

1006
01:15:24,886 --> 01:15:29,726
you're right you know i think and this is something i've really come to understand over

1007
01:15:29,726 --> 01:15:37,686
the last few years is seasteading is the next important thing that has to happen in the world

1008
01:15:37,686 --> 01:15:43,826
of the sovereign individual it has to happen and also when it happens it will be the precursor to

1009
01:15:43,826 --> 01:15:49,426
space travel and exactly the same it will be where all the lessons are learned for space travel

1010
01:15:49,426 --> 01:15:54,026
yeah and we've designed the libra arcs around that right i mean i kind of talked about it briefly

1011
01:15:54,026 --> 01:15:57,786
but there is a lot of engineering that's gone behind it that doesn't show up in the marketing

1012
01:15:57,786 --> 01:16:02,766
right and and when you think about it going one by one right you're location independent you can

1013
01:16:02,766 --> 01:16:06,886
move anywhere in the world you're energy independent you have solar generation you never need to buy

1014
01:16:06,886 --> 01:16:11,606
power from anyone ever again either for movement or for your daily life uh you have satellite

1015
01:16:11,606 --> 01:16:15,666
internet, you never need to, you know, connect to a landline anymore. You have water generation,

1016
01:16:15,826 --> 01:16:20,186
you have wastewater management. The only thing that you're not truly independent of on a Libra

1017
01:16:20,186 --> 01:16:24,466
is potentially food. But on the other hand, if you put a scuba compressor on there, you get some

1018
01:16:24,466 --> 01:16:28,406
spear fish, you know, some spear guns and a couple of fishing rods, you could potentially be food

1019
01:16:28,406 --> 01:16:33,386
independent as well. But taking that last one back, you could easily store one, two year supply

1020
01:16:33,386 --> 01:16:37,906
of food on this boat for your entire family. And for a year or two, you could just go anywhere you

1021
01:16:37,906 --> 01:16:42,126
want to any deserted island and be completely independent while still connected by the internet

1022
01:16:42,126 --> 01:16:45,606
but fully sovereign fully independent not relying on anyone else whatsoever

1023
01:16:45,606 --> 01:16:53,166
wow so that's that's the dream we're selling right it is but it's not a dream really when

1024
01:16:53,166 --> 01:16:58,646
you think about it is it is actually a reality providing i can't wait to see the first one

1025
01:16:58,646 --> 01:17:06,846
mason i really can't i can't wait to to see it because i you know i i like i say you know i'm

1026
01:17:06,846 --> 01:17:13,186
I'm a massive fan of the whole idea from an ideological basis.

1027
01:17:13,186 --> 01:17:14,786
Like you've just laid out.

1028
01:17:14,906 --> 01:17:16,946
If you really believe in the,

1029
01:17:17,046 --> 01:17:17,486
in the,

1030
01:17:17,486 --> 01:17:19,146
the ideas of self sovereignty,

1031
01:17:19,506 --> 01:17:20,586
this is it.

1032
01:17:20,926 --> 01:17:22,206
This is how you get it.

1033
01:17:22,346 --> 01:17:25,186
And it's not actually possible on land.

1034
01:17:25,426 --> 01:17:25,526
No.

1035
01:17:25,646 --> 01:17:30,126
The only way you get self sovereignty on land is when people don't know you're there.

1036
01:17:30,246 --> 01:17:30,446
Yeah.

1037
01:17:30,566 --> 01:17:31,746
Which is a good strategy,

1038
01:17:31,746 --> 01:17:32,026
but,

1039
01:17:32,086 --> 01:17:32,826
but really,

1040
01:17:32,986 --> 01:17:33,186
you know,

1041
01:17:33,306 --> 01:17:34,226
and that's the other thing too,

1042
01:17:34,246 --> 01:17:34,386
you know,

1043
01:17:34,386 --> 01:17:35,106
I had mentioned these,

1044
01:17:35,206 --> 01:17:35,546
you know,

1045
01:17:35,546 --> 01:17:37,766
these different ambassadors.

1046
01:17:37,766 --> 01:17:43,086
I think the one that I hadn't mentioned that we need to do as well is before all of this,

1047
01:17:43,106 --> 01:17:44,146
I was a bit of a prepper.

1048
01:17:44,226 --> 01:17:47,306
I liked the idea of, you know, you build your, your, your house off grid and you have all

1049
01:17:47,306 --> 01:17:50,486
of this, but at the end of the day, you can have the best possible off grid house.

1050
01:17:50,626 --> 01:17:54,126
But if things go wrong and you're trying to protect yourself and your family, you can't

1051
01:17:54,126 --> 01:17:54,426
move.

1052
01:17:54,606 --> 01:17:58,406
So if society collapses and someone finds where you live, you're kind of stuck.

1053
01:17:59,206 --> 01:18:04,506
What's a better prepper situation than being on a boat with everything you need and able

1054
01:18:04,506 --> 01:18:08,726
to move and just say, well, things are going bad. I guess I'm going 20 miles offshore and

1055
01:18:08,726 --> 01:18:13,286
riding things out. So I think that's another, you know, marketing angle. And I think that will be

1056
01:18:13,286 --> 01:18:16,126
when we've truly succeeded is when we've got the digital nomads, when we've got the lifestyle

1057
01:18:16,126 --> 01:18:20,026
people, we've got the seaside people, and we've also got all the off-grid prepper people who

1058
01:18:20,026 --> 01:18:24,006
previously wanted a big property in the country, but now realize maybe it's better to be on the

1059
01:18:24,006 --> 01:18:30,886
water. That's amazing. Well, it's come at the perfect time. I mean, the free, what I call the

1060
01:18:30,886 --> 01:18:39,406
three cities ecosystem is broad and you know it's all degrees of freedom that's what it is

1061
01:18:39,406 --> 01:18:45,546
i just love the fact that you're right up you're right at the extreme end and because without

1062
01:18:45,546 --> 01:18:52,686
people at that end you know like in a way it's the end that markets the whole movement in a way

1063
01:18:52,686 --> 01:18:58,306
because um a lot of people find it hard to wrap their head around a place that's giving a bit more

1064
01:18:58,306 --> 01:19:02,566
freedom. And they're like, yeah, well, that's not really, but it is.

1065
01:19:02,686 --> 01:19:06,766
And then when you, when you, when you spend time in this world, you realize

1066
01:19:06,766 --> 01:19:10,366
that as long as there's a little, as long as there's more freedom than before,

1067
01:19:10,366 --> 01:19:21,648
you doing the right thing You know there no such thing as suddenly creating the perfect freedom except funnily enough at sea or space where you really can you know but then the other thing too is it

1068
01:19:21,648 --> 01:19:26,568
yes it's maximal freedom but it's also no compromises because not only can you be off

1069
01:19:26,568 --> 01:19:30,128
grid and you completely separate from society but at the same time if things are going well

1070
01:19:30,128 --> 01:19:36,588
like i said you can also pull this up into prague into paris to london to any of the major cities

1071
01:19:36,588 --> 01:19:37,828
and say, things are going well.

1072
01:19:37,928 --> 01:19:38,648
I want to anchor here

1073
01:19:38,648 --> 01:19:40,788
and I want to spend a month living my life

1074
01:19:40,788 --> 01:19:42,348
in the middle of the city, Singapore,

1075
01:19:43,048 --> 01:19:45,688
Dubai, Monaco, anywhere you want to go,

1076
01:19:45,868 --> 01:19:47,348
you can take full advantage of society,

1077
01:19:47,428 --> 01:19:48,188
be fully integrated,

1078
01:19:48,308 --> 01:19:49,948
but then still have that ability to break off

1079
01:19:49,948 --> 01:19:51,848
and be fully independent at any time that you choose.

1080
01:19:52,048 --> 01:19:55,488
That's what got us into RVing.

1081
01:19:55,968 --> 01:19:58,028
Me and my wife and my kids,

1082
01:19:58,028 --> 01:20:02,608
we used to have a six birth RV,

1083
01:20:03,148 --> 01:20:04,308
a Heimer it was,

1084
01:20:04,368 --> 01:20:05,348
do you know the German brand?

1085
01:20:05,428 --> 01:20:05,868
I don't know.

1086
01:20:05,868 --> 01:20:07,188
I know the American brands a little bit.

1087
01:20:07,348 --> 01:20:07,628
Right.

1088
01:20:07,788 --> 01:20:07,928
Yeah.

1089
01:20:08,228 --> 01:20:15,508
And one of the best things about that was, because initially you think, right, we're just going to be going and visiting all these lovely remote places.

1090
01:20:15,888 --> 01:20:23,488
But then you realize, especially, for example, in France, you can park in the middle of a city at a special place.

1091
01:20:23,548 --> 01:20:25,128
You don't even have to park it on the side of the road.

1092
01:20:25,228 --> 01:20:26,688
They're called air de service.

1093
01:20:27,108 --> 01:20:29,028
And they have a hookup there and they have this and that.

1094
01:20:29,028 --> 01:20:36,368
And you literally, as long as you've got a toilet and a shower on you, you can walk out in the middle of a city, go to a restaurant and come home.

1095
01:20:36,708 --> 01:20:38,248
And that was a real eye-opener.

1096
01:20:38,448 --> 01:20:39,828
That's what convinced us.

1097
01:20:40,468 --> 01:20:46,748
And the reason why the Lieber-X is better than an RV is because, number one, more cities are accessible by water than by land.

1098
01:20:47,388 --> 01:20:49,968
Because you know you're not limited to one specific continent or one region.

1099
01:20:49,968 --> 01:20:58,048
And number two, no matter how great you design an RV, just based on the speeds, the engineering behind it, and the size, you're not going to be energy self-sufficient.

1100
01:20:58,048 --> 01:21:02,348
you're always going to need to buy diesel but with this you don't need that right you can truly be

1101
01:21:02,348 --> 01:21:06,908
independent from movement and you can sail continuously at five knots with no need for

1102
01:21:06,908 --> 01:21:10,848
any external power input i forgot to ask actually how long how long do these things last how long

1103
01:21:10,848 --> 01:21:18,148
does a as an aluminium whole vessel last uh i mean if it's well maintained essentially indefinitely

1104
01:21:18,148 --> 01:21:23,748
i mean at least 50 to 100 years if it's well maintained you're replacing the anodes um yeah

1105
01:21:23,748 --> 01:21:29,248
they they shouldn't corrode as long as you take care of them so there's a bit of i mean what does

1106
01:21:29,248 --> 01:21:34,388
that involve like taking it into a port every so often and having the barnacles yeah i mean that's

1107
01:21:34,388 --> 01:21:40,208
that's more an efficiency thing from a from a durability perspective um so the one risk of

1108
01:21:40,208 --> 01:21:44,348
aluminum is that in seawater with stray electrical currents it can slowly wear down the aluminum

1109
01:21:44,348 --> 01:21:49,548
so what you do is every couple years you you put a chunk of um of another metal like zinc for

1110
01:21:49,548 --> 01:21:54,788
example on the boat you connect it up and over the next couple years that zinc will wear down

1111
01:21:54,788 --> 01:21:57,848
and while it's wearing down it protects the aluminum so when it's worn down you need to

1112
01:21:57,848 --> 01:22:02,268
replace that every couple of years but it's very minimal maintenance actually is that an expensive

1113
01:22:02,268 --> 01:22:08,188
process no no no i think a couple hundred dollars if that oh right not coating it no no it's it's

1114
01:22:08,188 --> 01:22:12,688
literally it's a couple blocks of zinc you know a couple of a couple pounds of zinc and you just

1115
01:22:12,688 --> 01:22:17,988
put them in strategic places and then it uh by by electricity it protects it it's not physically

1116
01:22:17,988 --> 01:22:22,428
protecting it. The aluminum is strong itself. It's just electrical currents can sometimes damage it.

1117
01:22:22,468 --> 01:22:25,348
So you direct the electrical currents where you want them to go rather than through places you

1118
01:22:25,348 --> 01:22:30,228
don't want them to go. Is there any, is there good camaraderie between you and everyone else

1119
01:22:30,228 --> 01:22:35,788
in this space making stuff? Yeah. I mean, myself and Mitchell work very closely together. Grant,

1120
01:22:35,908 --> 01:22:41,988
I've spoken to a few times. I haven't worked as closely with him, but I think seasteading and the

1121
01:22:41,988 --> 01:22:48,908
free cities movement is it's truly it's early and it's exciting and there's so much growth

1122
01:22:48,908 --> 01:22:55,108
potential that anyone who truly believes in the vision is not going to be um nastily competitive

1123
01:22:55,108 --> 01:22:58,728
like we're friendly competitive we're trying to build a better product but we also want to help

1124
01:22:58,728 --> 01:23:02,648
each other because if more people buy libra arcs there's gonna be a bigger market for archipad and

1125
01:23:02,648 --> 01:23:05,988
if archipad is developed and you know has floating business districts then there's gonna be a bigger

1126
01:23:05,988 --> 01:23:11,148
market for our product right so i think um in a sense we're all we're all um collaboratively

1127
01:23:11,148 --> 01:23:14,888
developing different aspects of the ecosystem. And what I've said before, and I'll say it again,

1128
01:23:15,228 --> 01:23:20,328
this is a passion project for me, right? I think that the LibraRx is the best option for people

1129
01:23:20,328 --> 01:23:25,428
who want to be sovereign individuals and have that lifestyle. And I think we've done a fantastic job

1130
01:23:25,428 --> 01:23:29,848
at it. If tomorrow or on Saturday at the conference, someone shows me and says, ha,

1131
01:23:29,988 --> 01:23:34,388
I did a better job than you. I've designed a better boat that does more than yours can and

1132
01:23:34,388 --> 01:23:39,748
is half the price. I'll say, fantastic. How can I help you build it? Because I want the movement

1133
01:23:39,748 --> 01:23:43,148
to succeed right i'm i'm funding the project because i believe in the movement it's not a

1134
01:23:43,148 --> 01:23:47,148
money-making scheme for me it's a it's a way to move the movement forward and i think a lot of us

1135
01:23:47,148 --> 01:23:50,908
are like that obviously everyone has to pay their bills but i think everyone is committed to doing

1136
01:23:50,908 --> 01:23:54,008
what it takes to move the movement forward rather than advancing their own self-interest

1137
01:23:54,008 --> 01:24:02,928
hallelujah yes excellent oh i'm excited again about seasteading yeah i think i think i think

1138
01:24:02,928 --> 01:24:09,328
And I, yeah, I, I almost, look, the day I live at sea, you know, you've won.

1139
01:24:09,388 --> 01:24:10,128
I was about to say that.

1140
01:24:10,268 --> 01:24:13,188
When you sell your house in Wales and you buy a Libra X, we've won.

1141
01:24:13,728 --> 01:24:17,968
Well, no, I mean, it's not, it's not that I would have any problem selling my land-based

1142
01:24:17,968 --> 01:24:18,668
house actually.

1143
01:24:18,888 --> 01:24:19,048
Yeah.

1144
01:24:19,128 --> 01:24:21,388
I've been on a funny journey with that recently.

1145
01:24:21,388 --> 01:24:22,908
I've always owned my home.

1146
01:24:22,988 --> 01:24:24,648
I've started to see it as a bit of a liability.

1147
01:24:25,008 --> 01:24:25,368
Exactly.

1148
01:24:25,528 --> 01:24:25,668
Yeah.

1149
01:24:25,868 --> 01:24:30,248
Because of a number of things, but even just capital gains and like, you know, what did

1150
01:24:30,248 --> 01:24:30,568
you call it?

1151
01:24:30,628 --> 01:24:32,088
Wells taxes and stuff like that.

1152
01:24:32,188 --> 01:24:32,308
Yep.

1153
01:24:32,308 --> 01:24:42,868
I do actually realize that I used to think property was one of those things that was quite safe, but actually it could turn into a bit of a ball and chain.

1154
01:24:43,588 --> 01:24:48,888
And it also means that you can't respond to your government very well.

1155
01:24:49,188 --> 01:24:50,708
No, exactly. It's a political liability.

1156
01:24:50,828 --> 01:24:57,668
And also, I think property is also a surface area like a maintenance liability, right?

1157
01:24:57,668 --> 01:24:59,628
Because unless you actually own just an apartment,

1158
01:24:59,988 --> 01:25:01,348
you have a lot of maintenance to do on your property

1159
01:25:01,348 --> 01:25:02,588
for not to fall into disrepair

1160
01:25:02,588 --> 01:25:04,088
and then be taxed or fined

1161
01:25:04,088 --> 01:25:05,528
because you haven't maintained your property, right?

1162
01:25:05,528 --> 01:25:08,128
You can't just leave your house for three weeks

1163
01:25:08,128 --> 01:25:09,988
or three months and let everything become overgrown.

1164
01:25:10,088 --> 01:25:11,348
You'll probably come back to a big fine

1165
01:25:11,348 --> 01:25:12,388
and a complaint from all your neighbors

1166
01:25:12,388 --> 01:25:13,288
that you haven't maintained it.

1167
01:25:13,628 --> 01:25:15,008
But a boat is much easier.

1168
01:25:15,468 --> 01:25:16,068
There is maintenance,

1169
01:25:16,228 --> 01:25:18,048
but compared to owning a full property,

1170
01:25:18,128 --> 01:25:19,468
especially an off-grid type property,

1171
01:25:19,468 --> 01:25:21,248
there's a lot less maintenance on that boat.

1172
01:25:21,608 --> 01:25:23,628
Is there the kind of maintenance you get on boats

1173
01:25:23,628 --> 01:25:25,048
where you have to wash the deck down

1174
01:25:25,048 --> 01:25:25,848
and you have to do this

1175
01:25:25,848 --> 01:25:28,728
you know, saltwater corrosion and all this kind of stuff.

1176
01:25:28,728 --> 01:25:39,610
So yeah again the corrosion we talk about the anode that you know that slow maintenance The deck you can wash as often as you want We going to use an artificial material called S that is very resistant to corrosion

1177
01:25:40,050 --> 01:25:43,990
The outside is very simple, easy to clean, durable.

1178
01:25:44,570 --> 01:25:48,130
The inside, also, unlike, I guess this is another thing I hadn't mentioned before,

1179
01:25:48,130 --> 01:25:51,810
but most boats are kind of designed as boats first and foremost,

1180
01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:53,590
and they add some other stuff in to make it livable.

1181
01:25:54,130 --> 01:25:57,550
Ours is designed as a fully insulated and conditioned space.

1182
01:25:57,550 --> 01:26:03,150
So the entire interior space will always be air conditioned, heated, dehumidified and maintained at an appropriate temperature.

1183
01:26:03,290 --> 01:26:05,930
So it should really slow the degradation of all the internal materials.

1184
01:26:06,290 --> 01:26:11,750
It also means that we can use standard household furnishes, which are cheaper and operate better than most marine furniture.

1185
01:26:12,510 --> 01:26:22,690
And then in terms of the general maintenance on the vessel, a lot of the maintenance comes from either the sails or the rigging in a sailing vessel or the big diesel engine or the gas engine in a power vessel.

1186
01:26:22,690 --> 01:26:28,470
but ours is two electric motors a battery bank plus or minus a small generator so the actual

1187
01:26:28,470 --> 01:26:32,870
maintenance on it is is very low it's similar to an electric car right i mean an electric car

1188
01:26:32,870 --> 01:26:36,730
probably has even more maintenance because going down the highway at 120 kilometers an hour this is

1189
01:26:36,730 --> 01:26:42,530
moving slowly at five to ten kilometers an hour so the maintenance on an electric boat is is minimal

1190
01:26:42,530 --> 01:26:48,470
if any i mean it's you you clean the floors you wash the walls and that's about it it would be the

1191
01:26:48,470 --> 01:26:56,710
supreme irony if i ended up living on a boat but i i you know like i say ideologically it makes

1192
01:26:56,710 --> 01:27:02,830
the most sense out of everything the question is is how much of a sovereign individual do i want to

1193
01:27:02,830 --> 01:27:08,610
be that's that's it really when it comes down to it isn't it yep you i think the your only

1194
01:27:08,610 --> 01:27:14,590
your only chance on land to be a sovereign individual is is being somewhere that no one

1195
01:27:14,590 --> 01:27:19,150
really knows you're there and what kind of quality of life do you have well that's the problem yeah

1196
01:27:19,150 --> 01:27:24,430
you can't interact with the world unfortunately you it's a choice you have to make and it's

1197
01:27:24,430 --> 01:27:30,610
something i think about so much at the moment because those are the thoughts that relatively

1198
01:27:30,610 --> 01:27:36,750
normal people are starting to have oh wait a minute is is my standard is is the way i'm living

1199
01:27:36,750 --> 01:27:43,510
in accordance with what i believe and if it's not okay well how do i do that um i think my big

1200
01:27:43,510 --> 01:27:51,770
the big barrier to me ever being a seasteader in reality would be the fact that i feel like

1201
01:27:51,770 --> 01:27:57,750
there's a kind of there's a there's a seafaring culture that i'm not a part of and i've dipped my

1202
01:27:57,750 --> 01:28:03,290
toes i have to say and it wasn't it wasn't really my thing but i'm also not a part of that culture

1203
01:28:03,290 --> 01:28:07,230
right i didn't grow up sailing i'm not interested in boats for the sake of boats i'm interested in

1204
01:28:07,230 --> 01:28:11,670
from the ideological perspective and that is like i said also one of the things that differentiates

1205
01:28:11,670 --> 01:28:16,650
it is not designed as a boat for boaters it is designed as a floating mobile house for people

1206
01:28:16,650 --> 01:28:21,710
who want to be mobile but don't want to have to spend years learning how to to trim a sail or

1207
01:28:21,710 --> 01:28:27,710
uh you know uh maintain a diesel engine or uh wax a decks right it is designed as a floating house

1208
01:28:27,710 --> 01:28:33,070
first and foremost i've got it i just realized remembered something in in amsterdam there's

1209
01:28:33,070 --> 01:28:39,950
quite a few floating houses aren't there all all around i remember on quite large river fronts

1210
01:28:39,950 --> 01:28:43,290
at the side, we were going in a boat somewhere

1211
01:28:43,290 --> 01:28:44,590
and I was looking at them.

1212
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:44,990
Yep.

1213
01:28:45,090 --> 01:28:46,610
Very much like square boxes.

1214
01:28:46,810 --> 01:28:46,950
Yep.

1215
01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:50,450
So you could just pull up to one of those more there

1216
01:28:50,450 --> 01:28:51,830
for however much they charge.

1217
01:28:51,950 --> 01:28:52,190
I don't know.

1218
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:53,050
Yeah, exactly.

1219
01:28:53,130 --> 01:28:53,990
Yeah, no, that's the thing, right?

1220
01:28:54,010 --> 01:28:55,170
If you don't want to move,

1221
01:28:55,390 --> 01:28:57,290
if you say, I like Amsterdam

1222
01:28:57,290 --> 01:29:00,850
or I like Monaco if you have the money,

1223
01:29:01,170 --> 01:29:02,190
you could take one of these,

1224
01:29:02,290 --> 01:29:03,510
you could put it in a mooring slip

1225
01:29:03,510 --> 01:29:06,690
or find a seawall and just lash up to it

1226
01:29:06,690 --> 01:29:09,130
and live there as long as you want

1227
01:29:09,130 --> 01:29:11,210
until you decide that the time it comes to leave.

1228
01:29:11,210 --> 01:29:12,030
You could spend the same,

1229
01:29:12,390 --> 01:29:14,350
you could spend two years in the same location

1230
01:29:14,350 --> 01:29:15,750
from a sea spitting perspective that,

1231
01:29:15,870 --> 01:29:18,770
you know, that has implications for taxes

1232
01:29:18,770 --> 01:29:21,010
that you're now probably technically living in that area.

1233
01:29:21,270 --> 01:29:21,830
But-

1234
01:29:21,830 --> 01:29:22,250
Are you though?

1235
01:29:22,610 --> 01:29:24,950
Like, is anyone, that's a good question.

1236
01:29:25,190 --> 01:29:26,810
Most countries have some kind of rule

1237
01:29:26,810 --> 01:29:28,190
that if you leave a boat in the country

1238
01:29:28,190 --> 01:29:29,270
for a certain period of time,

1239
01:29:29,290 --> 01:29:30,410
I think it's usually six months,

1240
01:29:30,710 --> 01:29:32,270
then you've considered to have imported it

1241
01:29:32,270 --> 01:29:34,070
and you're now residing in that country,

1242
01:29:34,530 --> 01:29:36,070
which is not a problem, right?

1243
01:29:36,110 --> 01:29:38,870
I mean, the point you made is very valid

1244
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:40,910
that a lot of people live on floating houses already.

1245
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:42,510
So even if you're not ready to see stead,

1246
01:29:42,590 --> 01:29:44,590
even if you say, look, I need to be in Amsterdam,

1247
01:29:45,170 --> 01:29:47,390
but I want to have an option.

1248
01:29:47,710 --> 01:29:48,750
You could buy one of these,

1249
01:29:49,050 --> 01:29:51,090
moor it up and live there for three or five years.

1250
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:52,710
And then if things change,

1251
01:29:53,070 --> 01:29:54,090
instead of having to sell,

1252
01:29:54,330 --> 01:29:55,010
you can just say, yeah,

1253
01:29:55,110 --> 01:29:56,650
it's time for me to leave and I'm going to leave.

1254
01:29:57,090 --> 01:29:59,130
It'd be hard for them to tax you as you left anyway.

1255
01:29:59,290 --> 01:29:59,570
Exactly.

1256
01:30:00,250 --> 01:30:00,370
Yeah.

1257
01:30:01,370 --> 01:30:03,390
Without putting too fine a point on it,

1258
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:05,310
you'd be waving out of the back window.

1259
01:30:06,250 --> 01:30:07,270
Exactly, exactly.

1260
01:30:07,270 --> 01:30:15,010
you haven't paid your exit tax yeah sorry i can't hear you too far away yeah yeah wow yeah okay right

1261
01:30:15,010 --> 01:30:21,350
we better knock it on the head i've we've got some we've got a team building thing to go to

1262
01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:26,630
tonight but anyway look thanks for um thanks for coming in it's it's great to hear the story after

1263
01:30:26,630 --> 01:30:33,710
two years that is actually literally about to launch that's phenomenal and i wish you all the

1264
01:30:33,710 --> 01:30:40,770
greatest of luck i think um like i say i i live vicariously through seasteaders i you've you've

1265
01:30:40,770 --> 01:30:46,530
converted me and i've got a very critical mind about it mainly because i don't want to just

1266
01:30:46,530 --> 01:30:52,570
think oh yeah i i really want to be critical because it's such a far out idea well i mean i

1267
01:30:52,570 --> 01:30:56,630
don't expect you to be in the first batch but you know maybe batch three or four we'll see uh the uh

1268
01:30:56,630 --> 01:31:01,010
the free cities podcast uh move to a video format with you and your family living on a libre arcs

1269
01:31:01,010 --> 01:31:06,570
Well, yeah. I mean, we started this podcast in Prospera, so it would be the natural progression.

1270
01:31:06,930 --> 01:31:06,970
Yep.

1271
01:31:07,210 --> 01:31:11,270
Run it. Have you seen that film, The Boat That Rocks?

1272
01:31:11,410 --> 01:31:12,090
I haven't seen that one.

1273
01:31:12,090 --> 01:31:14,210
It was about radio. I think it was about Radio Caroline.

1274
01:31:14,450 --> 01:31:14,770
Oh, OK.

1275
01:31:14,930 --> 01:31:19,750
It's a great film, actually. Honestly, a really great, not just because of the story, but it's a great film.

1276
01:31:20,290 --> 01:31:24,130
It'd be one of those. We run the podcast off a moving seastead.

1277
01:31:24,230 --> 01:31:27,370
That would be the ultimate, I suppose. Talk about living the dream.

1278
01:31:27,370 --> 01:31:28,850
Anyway, thanks, Mason.

1279
01:31:29,090 --> 01:31:31,490
And good luck with your talk and good luck with everything, man.

1280
01:31:31,510 --> 01:31:32,210
I really mean that.

1281
01:31:32,430 --> 01:31:33,050
Thank you very much.

1282
01:31:33,090 --> 01:31:34,070
It was nice chatting with you again.