1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,960 What's up freaks? This rip of RHR was brought to you by our good friends at CoinKite. 2 00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:13,720 They produce the Cold Card Q, my favorite hardware wallet. It's got two secure enclaves, 3 00:00:13,820 --> 00:00:18,500 it's got a full screen, full keyboard here. As you can see, if you're watching, if you can't watch, 4 00:00:18,580 --> 00:00:22,040 just imagine something that looks like a BlackBerry. It allows you to create private 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:29,580 public key pairs offline in an airgat fashion. Never have to connect the Cold Card Q to an 6 00:00:29,580 --> 00:00:36,700 internet device you can sign transactions and pspts remotely in the most secure fashion if you're a 7 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:41,760 bitcoin power user and you're looking for the best security go pick up a cold card queue and go to 8 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:47,460 coin kite.com find the cold card queue there i think you go to cold card.com as well use the code 9 00:00:47,460 --> 00:00:53,560 rh for five percent off step up your security get a cold card queue this rip was brought to you by 10 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,620 our good friends at bitkey if you have friends family members who are newbies you still have 11 00:00:58,620 --> 00:01:03,200 their Bitcoin in the exchange. Help them take the first step off the exchange. BitKey makes it very 12 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:09,760 easy. It's a hardware device that has a multi-sig. The hardware device has a key. Your mobile phone 13 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,660 app has a key. And Block has a key in the cloud. They've designed this with trade-offs to make it 14 00:01:15,660 --> 00:01:23,700 very hard to lose Bitcoin. Easy to use, hard to lose. Go to bitkey.world. Use the code RHR or 15 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:28,720 rhr20 at checkout to get a discount not sure exactly which one it is yet try both go check 16 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:35,200 it out bicky.world try rhr or rhr20 this route was also brought to you by our good friends at 17 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:41,680 stackwork if you're looking for a great way to make kyc free sats stackwork has bounties 18 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:47,760 go to stackwork.ai find their bounties page and contribute to the bounties you can make bitcoin 19 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:53,640 kyc free for completing the bounties if you're a developer looking to scoop up some easy sats 20 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,860 go check out the bounties, contribute to them 21 00:01:55,860 --> 00:01:57,100 and stack some sats 22 00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:59,240 stackwork.ai 23 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:27,920 It's incredibly fast. You can go on streaming sites with it. They don't say, hey, you've got a VPN. It just works. 24 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:33,720 Go to Obscura.net. Use the code RHR25 for 25% off in annual subscription. 25 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:39,960 It's an incredible deal. Obscura.net. RHR25 for 25% off in annual subscription. 26 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,800 You've had a dynamic where money has become freer than free. 27 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:55,560 If you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. 28 00:02:56,260 --> 00:02:57,740 So it's all acting like safe haven. 29 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:05,120 I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. 30 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,360 In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. 31 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:11,180 I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. 32 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,100 If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. 33 00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:14,820 You probably should be. 34 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,320 Oh, Big Friday. 35 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,140 So big Friday. 36 00:03:22,780 --> 00:03:24,160 It's rabbit hole recap time. 37 00:03:24,460 --> 00:03:27,900 We've got a long time guest, 38 00:03:28,180 --> 00:03:28,800 long time, 39 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:29,400 long time, 40 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,500 long time friend, 41 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:31,240 long time guest, 42 00:03:31,300 --> 00:03:32,860 but it's been a long time since you've been on Alex. 43 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:33,980 Welcome back to the show. 44 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:36,940 Thank you for having me. 45 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:39,460 Don't you guys, 46 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,360 you guys want to tell us, 47 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,680 you guys want to tell us about that background where you are? 48 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:45,360 You want to lead us? 49 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:45,540 Yeah, 50 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:45,820 sure. 51 00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:48,380 I took that photo about five minutes ago. 52 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:57,860 Matt and I tried to set up in the wilderness and we were very close to having a very epic live view. 53 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,040 The Starlink just couldn't quite hack it. We were close. 54 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:07,240 My backpack fell like 40 feet down the hill, 50 feet down the hill. 55 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:11,000 I set the backpack up and it starts rolling down the hill. It was fun. 56 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:32,180 Um, we are here because the Human Rights Foundation brought together some Bitcoiners for a few days of discussions and collaborations on the periphery of Anthony Scaramucci's digital assets conference, the SALT, which takes place in Jackson Hole a couple of days before the Fed meeting. 57 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:36,140 So we had a bunch of good Bitcoiners here. 58 00:04:36,140 --> 00:04:49,000 We had Jack Mahlers, Paul Itoy, Eric Herzman. We also had Jeff Booth and a few friends of ours from the activism side of Bitcoin. 59 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:56,220 and we just spent a couple of days conspiring and we did, we did some speeches at the salt thing. 60 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:02,540 And, uh, afterwards a friend of ours who lives nearby decided to take us hiking and fly fishing. 61 00:05:03,060 --> 00:05:09,120 And we're up at this, uh, hotel kind of in the middle of nowhere that's not in Jackson hole. 62 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,240 And we didn't realize that it's the hotel where the fed meeting actually happens. 63 00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:18,240 So Matt's driving in yesterday and they stop him and they're like, 64 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,080 are you part of the security protocol? 65 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,660 Yeah, they thought we were working. 66 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,900 That's how we found out. 67 00:05:24,660 --> 00:05:25,260 You said, yeah. 68 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:26,520 Red meeting. 69 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:27,760 You said, I am. 70 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:29,960 I'm here to secure money, though. 71 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:32,060 I'm here to secure the money the right way. 72 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:33,560 We're here to put you out of business. 73 00:05:34,660 --> 00:05:37,240 In the coffee line this morning next to me was Neil Kashkari. 74 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:44,620 And as I was walking out a couple minutes later, Andrew Bailey, 75 00:05:44,860 --> 00:05:47,700 the other Andrew Bailey, not our Bitcoin or Andrew Bailey, 76 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:51,660 But the other one, the head of Bank of England was walking in. 77 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,700 So look, man, it's a central banker fest. 78 00:05:55,660 --> 00:06:06,920 And it's hopefully some of the last years of this antiquated technology we have where people kind of sit in a closed room and decide the cost of capital for all of humanity, which is completely ridiculous. 79 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,600 But that's where we are. 80 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:09,600 Yeah. 81 00:06:10,420 --> 00:06:13,980 Did you guys pick up any new Fed speak this week? 82 00:06:13,980 --> 00:06:18,860 I don't know if you caught his speech at all, but it was very Fed-speaky today. 83 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,240 You should do your interpretation of what you thought was going to happen. 84 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:25,980 We were on... 85 00:06:26,540 --> 00:06:37,980 So first off, on the SALT event, it's historically like a crypto suit event, right? 86 00:06:37,980 --> 00:06:44,480 Right. And so this year, Alex went last year and this year they said that we could have like a Bitcoin HRF section for it. 87 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,200 And I would just say that. 88 00:06:50,780 --> 00:07:01,740 You know, the the Marty, the Marty ism that like shit coins are dead and like we passed the chasm and everyone's a Bitcoin maximalist now is so far from reality. 89 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:04,280 Like it was just a whole different world there. 90 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:12,260 um it was pretty pretty fucking uh eye-opening in that regard um like they're you know linking 91 00:07:12,260 --> 00:07:16,580 things with chain link and putting real world assets on blockchains and stuff and eric trump 92 00:07:16,580 --> 00:07:23,800 was there it was like kind of its own circus in itself um on the fed side like what i was saying 93 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:31,260 to we were talking about powell first of all like it's absolutely ridiculous like how much influence 94 00:07:31,260 --> 00:07:39,920 like these people have on um but i i think like from the bare minimum of what i saw 95 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:45,440 was kind of like what people expected which is like we're gonna like stay we're gonna stay the 96 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,860 course a little bit but we're open to cutting rates but we're not gonna like specifically 97 00:07:48,860 --> 00:07:55,220 announce that we're gonna cut rates right now and um we were actually on a hike we were on like a 98 00:07:55,220 --> 00:08:00,780 hike like 20 minutes away while that was going on and you didn't actually have to look at any of the 99 00:08:00,780 --> 00:08:05,480 headlines like all you had to do is just like check the bitcoin price like we woke up at 12 100 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,400 and it was at like 117 so i was like okay well like if we were over 120 like then we probably 101 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,720 announced that we're definitely cutting rates but like at that price range it's like okay 102 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,800 they they just insinuated that that's probably the direction we're going to go in but you 103 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,540 my point is you probably know better than us uh because we've had internet troubles over here 104 00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:29,540 no it was uh i was trolling lit up because i haven't watched it yet i've just read 105 00:08:29,540 --> 00:08:34,460 the after effects so that's funnily enough 20 minutes before he went live logan and i 106 00:08:34,460 --> 00:08:40,660 started recording an episode of tftc with michael powell from cross-border capital talking about what 107 00:08:40,660 --> 00:08:47,820 powell might say but i had the same experience we finished that we finished that interview and i was 108 00:08:47,820 --> 00:08:54,320 very locked to the camera being an attentive host didn't look at twitter or anything and 109 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,960 uh saw my block clock when we when we stopped and we were at like 1 16 9 i was like ah 110 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:08,620 there were some dovish comments uh in jackson hole and uh so for those i'm sure many of you know but 111 00:09:08,620 --> 00:09:16,480 uh i think it was ubs or barclays had a good sort of synopsis of what it was it was like 112 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,700 basically pal came in he basically pushed back against trump a little bit saying hey tariffs are 113 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:27,800 inflationary at least temporarily like we're doing the best we can with the data that we have 114 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:35,600 And he said, considering the data we have, there was jobs revisions last month that are making us sort of change our view. 115 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,200 And then he said, we're not going to target a 2% average inflation rate anymore. 116 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:42,000 We're going to try and go back to the historical target. 117 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,660 But more importantly, he said, we're focused on the jobs market because it looks like it's weakening. 118 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,180 And so with that in mind, our policy may shift. 119 00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:53,160 And the markets took that as rates are getting cut next month. 120 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:56,120 So that was the extent of what he said, I believe. 121 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:08,680 But yeah, I mean, it's kind of amazing that we still live in this world where it's kind of like when you're waiting for the Pope to be named and we're all watching. 122 00:10:09,140 --> 00:10:11,980 Is the smoke going to be, you know, is it going to be white or not? 123 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:19,820 It's amazing that we have this centralization and this politicization of base money for the world. 124 00:10:19,820 --> 00:10:27,520 and literally people sitting a few hundred yards that way in a private room that's completely opaque. 125 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,400 You know, it's a private event. 126 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,100 You know, get to decide. 127 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,800 Big security guards outside the doors. 128 00:10:35,020 --> 00:10:35,100 Beefy. 129 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:35,640 Beefy. 130 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:36,480 You weren't sneaking in. 131 00:10:36,820 --> 00:10:37,520 There's no way. 132 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:39,860 You don't think I can take them? 133 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:41,920 No. 134 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:46,040 Yeah. 135 00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:47,820 No, it's hilarious. 136 00:10:47,820 --> 00:10:54,080 I want to give Trevor, who's running the social account, he sent out a tweet that was very accurate. 137 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,780 It said the Fed is abandoning their 2% average inflation target, which is what they're doing. 138 00:11:02,740 --> 00:11:06,280 And everybody's giving them shit because they're like, oh, they're not abandoning an inflation target. 139 00:11:06,340 --> 00:11:07,300 They're going back to 2%. 140 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:08,700 To be more specific, they want it lower. 141 00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:15,520 And it's like, people, you're squabbling over fine details that don't even matter. 142 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,420 You can have a 2% inflation rate, but they're about to lower rates. 143 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,220 Inflation's already high. 144 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,560 You have stock markets at all-time highs, leverage at all-time highs. 145 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,340 They're about to turn it on turbo. 146 00:11:27,860 --> 00:11:35,440 But they specifically said that they're leaving the 2% target? 147 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,640 So post-2020, when they were thinking about moving it to 3% and then people pushed back, 148 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:49,100 They said, all right, we're going to try and fight back towards an average, a rolling average of 2% over, I don't know, the timescale. 149 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:55,100 And then they said, we're going to go back to our previous target from before we made that policy decision. 150 00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:07,860 But to your point, it's insane that we're – I mean, I don't think the three of us are, but the world is lingering on the words of this man and the few people around him. 151 00:12:07,860 --> 00:12:14,780 donald trump's probably happy today though of course i mean he's been trying to push for this 152 00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:20,340 right yeah i just think it's great that finally we have a bitcoin focused view from from the 153 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:26,220 property you have every single mainstream media outlet like just a two-minute walk from where 154 00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:32,520 we're sitting and you know they're all breathlessly awaiting what's going on and um you know we just 155 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,480 have a different view on the matter so it's nice to nice to have some local representation where 156 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,220 We were almost falling down the hill, trying to like get set up for 157 00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:42,120 a rabbit hole recap. 158 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:53,051 Uh Gladstein had an interesting idea for you to set up a TFTC ton tier next year I think you should do it Marty So we don have to like prop ourselves up on the hill I do that I in 159 00:12:53,311 --> 00:12:54,251 I'll come to Jacksonville. 160 00:12:54,591 --> 00:12:58,031 You just go and you sit outside and you have this, the background that you're looking at. 161 00:12:58,051 --> 00:12:58,771 I think you need to bring a tent. 162 00:12:58,991 --> 00:13:01,431 Yeah, but you need a tent and you got a shield from sun. 163 00:13:01,951 --> 00:13:02,851 It's super hot here. 164 00:13:03,611 --> 00:13:10,331 I'll set up my next Andrew Ross Sorkin and we'll do like Jamie, Jamie Dimon to come up, 165 00:13:10,331 --> 00:13:11,791 talk about, talk about Bitcoin. 166 00:13:11,791 --> 00:13:13,131 It'll be good. 167 00:13:13,251 --> 00:13:14,211 At that point, we'll have one. 168 00:13:14,351 --> 00:13:15,671 They'll be bending the knee to us. 169 00:13:16,691 --> 00:13:19,091 And it'll be fun. 170 00:13:19,211 --> 00:13:21,451 It'll be interesting to see what happens a year from now. 171 00:13:21,451 --> 00:13:21,951 By next year? 172 00:13:22,631 --> 00:13:22,911 Yeah. 173 00:13:23,911 --> 00:13:24,631 Feeling bullish? 174 00:13:25,371 --> 00:13:25,671 Yeah. 175 00:13:25,891 --> 00:13:29,891 Well, real-world assets and Ethereum treasury companies are going to take over the world. 176 00:13:30,051 --> 00:13:32,191 Tom Lee is saying there's going to be a flippening of Bitcoin. 177 00:13:32,571 --> 00:13:33,291 And that means back. 178 00:13:34,511 --> 00:13:40,431 Yeah, but the SALT event was – it's really jarring because I don't know about you, 179 00:13:40,431 --> 00:13:42,211 but I spend most of my time at Bitcoin events. 180 00:13:42,771 --> 00:13:47,731 And this is my first time back at a digital assets event in a long time. 181 00:13:48,491 --> 00:13:50,071 And it's pretty shocking. 182 00:13:50,371 --> 00:13:52,151 I mean, it really reminds you of how early you are 183 00:13:52,151 --> 00:13:55,331 when someone like Jack Mahlers, 184 00:13:55,451 --> 00:13:58,771 who usually can fill a 10,000 person room at the Bitcoin conference. 185 00:13:59,551 --> 00:14:02,711 I mean, these crypto people and these Tradify people are just... 186 00:14:02,711 --> 00:14:06,011 I mean, he's talking about on stage how they have 43,000 Bitcoin 187 00:14:06,011 --> 00:14:07,651 and they're doing all this amazing stuff. 188 00:14:08,171 --> 00:14:10,131 And people could just care less. 189 00:14:10,131 --> 00:14:12,811 And it's pretty amazing. 190 00:14:13,011 --> 00:14:16,011 There was 30 people in the room, maybe 50 max. 191 00:14:16,391 --> 00:14:20,071 And then there was quadruple that eating lunch outside the doors. 192 00:14:20,331 --> 00:14:25,791 And it's probably Jack's only live fireside appearance in a six-month window. 193 00:14:26,451 --> 00:14:27,991 I just thought it was amazing. 194 00:14:28,151 --> 00:14:28,971 It was pretty hilarious. 195 00:14:29,551 --> 00:14:32,971 That's when I ran into – I mean, I talked to him. 196 00:14:32,971 --> 00:14:36,051 I talked to him briefly, but when I was in Abu Dhabi in December last year, 197 00:14:36,051 --> 00:14:40,411 It was a very similar event that Scaramucci was spearheading. 198 00:14:40,671 --> 00:14:41,471 Is he still shilling? 199 00:14:42,531 --> 00:14:45,011 There's Xfinity, Xfinity, Aave. 200 00:14:45,571 --> 00:14:51,951 He was big on real world assets and he was shilling some shit coin that Galaxy's aped into. 201 00:14:52,891 --> 00:14:54,451 They're shilling everything you can imagine. 202 00:14:55,171 --> 00:14:57,451 I mean, I walked into the room for a second. 203 00:14:57,591 --> 00:15:04,751 I didn't listen much, but the CEO of Kraken was talking about how, well, you know, Bitcoin's fine, 204 00:15:04,751 --> 00:15:06,431 but we really need that programmability. 205 00:15:06,811 --> 00:15:07,811 Like they're still stuck on this, 206 00:15:08,071 --> 00:15:09,751 like Turing complete blockchain stuff. 207 00:15:10,231 --> 00:15:10,991 It's amazing. 208 00:15:11,131 --> 00:15:12,731 It's kind of like the class of 2017. 209 00:15:13,171 --> 00:15:14,951 You had Charles Hodgkinson. 210 00:15:15,151 --> 00:15:15,551 Oh, yeah. 211 00:15:16,771 --> 00:15:17,751 He was there. 212 00:15:18,591 --> 00:15:20,791 You had Brad Garlinghouse was sitting next to me 213 00:15:20,791 --> 00:15:22,071 at the breakfast one day. 214 00:15:22,631 --> 00:15:23,771 I'm just like, what is going on here? 215 00:15:23,931 --> 00:15:25,171 So that's Cardano. 216 00:15:25,331 --> 00:15:26,351 Sorry, and that's the Ripple guy. 217 00:15:26,871 --> 00:15:27,031 Yeah. 218 00:15:27,391 --> 00:15:31,571 So you have all these coins that, you know, 219 00:15:31,571 --> 00:15:33,531 were created years and years ago, 220 00:15:33,531 --> 00:15:40,131 exclusively as schemes to prey on the public basically you know it's kind of sad these people 221 00:15:40,131 --> 00:15:44,611 never got in trouble they'll probably never get in trouble you know and um instead we have the 222 00:15:44,611 --> 00:15:50,911 privacy devs being attacked it may be pretty frustrated it is it's frustrating but it also 223 00:15:50,911 --> 00:15:55,391 means uh we have time to continue to stay humble and snack stats because people are going to get 224 00:15:55,391 --> 00:16:01,171 so bamboozled this cycle tom lee's out there really he was there people sitting next to 225 00:16:01,171 --> 00:16:04,071 standing at the dinner the other night. 226 00:16:04,391 --> 00:16:06,671 So they brought in every single cartoon character. 227 00:16:06,891 --> 00:16:07,871 It was pretty interesting. 228 00:16:08,611 --> 00:16:08,631 Yeah. 229 00:16:09,351 --> 00:16:12,011 Well, I was wrong, Matt. 230 00:16:12,691 --> 00:16:13,051 Hand up. 231 00:16:14,571 --> 00:16:15,211 Hand up. 232 00:16:15,291 --> 00:16:15,511 No, no. 233 00:16:15,731 --> 00:16:19,231 By the way, like, say what we want about Scaramucci, 234 00:16:19,351 --> 00:16:22,611 but I do respect the fact that he wanted us to come. 235 00:16:22,611 --> 00:16:26,091 He wanted a half-day Bitcoin-focused, Bitcoin-only section. 236 00:16:26,791 --> 00:16:27,831 I thought that was really cool. 237 00:16:28,011 --> 00:16:30,491 So I'm grateful to him for putting that together. 238 00:16:31,171 --> 00:16:36,191 because at least you get some of it. I mean, otherwise, it's just coin after coin after 239 00:16:36,191 --> 00:16:40,891 coin after coin. So I thought that was a positive step. And it was actually quite useful, I think, 240 00:16:40,931 --> 00:16:46,391 for a lot of us, because there's a lot of people in the audience who aren't token scammers. They're 241 00:16:46,391 --> 00:16:52,291 like, I don't know, I own 5% of the land in Wyoming, or some pension manager, or the governor 242 00:16:52,291 --> 00:16:57,171 of Wyoming was here, Fed board governors were here, senators, congressmen. So, you know, it's 243 00:16:57,171 --> 00:17:02,431 still a really useful event um and i'm glad that there was a big chunk of bitcoin only focus on on 244 00:17:02,431 --> 00:17:15,331 it yeah i did think it was funny that uh uh he he um well first like thank thank you me for coming 245 00:17:15,331 --> 00:17:20,371 and then like his only question he had for me was what was the price of bitcoin going to be by the 246 00:17:20,371 --> 00:17:26,931 end of the year and she asked you this yeah and i just he's like oh we have the bitcoin experts 247 00:17:26,931 --> 00:17:32,051 here like what's the price of bitcoin by the end of the year and i deflected it and i don't think 248 00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:36,731 he you know he was he just wanted like a straight answer and i was not i'm not making predictions 249 00:17:36,731 --> 00:17:42,251 anymore but then i think like yesterday or two days ago he made he made a public bitcoin price 250 00:17:42,251 --> 00:17:48,171 prediction like for end of the year i forget i think he's yeah 180k by end of the years 180 yeah 251 00:17:48,171 --> 00:17:55,111 so i wonder who told him 180 like i didn't answer but if i had said like 250 maybe his price 252 00:17:55,111 --> 00:17:59,251 prediction would have been 250 i just thought that was kind of funny yeah you should have anchored 253 00:17:59,251 --> 00:18:05,771 like i'm going with josh mandel's 444 000 by november it's gonna happen uh operations it's 254 00:18:05,771 --> 00:18:15,331 also tiresome but like i said it gives us time to build stack more sots and i think um i'd like 255 00:18:15,331 --> 00:18:21,851 to get your perspective on this considering all the work the bounties the um grants you guys are 256 00:18:21,851 --> 00:18:30,271 doing at HRF, particularly around privacy-focused technologies. We've seen the proliferation of 257 00:18:30,271 --> 00:18:37,031 Cashew particularly, I think most recently with the implementation in BitChat. And I saw that 258 00:18:37,031 --> 00:18:43,911 Jack and Callie were pushing some updates to BitChat in both Android and iOS this week. And so 259 00:18:43,911 --> 00:18:48,931 since you mentioned it earlier about the attack on privacy devs, what do you think the status is 260 00:18:48,931 --> 00:18:56,091 right now, Alex? Yeah, obviously it's paramount importance. I'm of two minds. I'm obviously 261 00:18:56,091 --> 00:19:00,991 really upset about the selective targeting of the developers who are building open source software. 262 00:19:01,231 --> 00:19:05,431 And it makes me sad that the American government is going after the blacksmith when someone stabbed 263 00:19:05,431 --> 00:19:12,151 someone else with a knife. Got to go after the criminals, not the actual people making the tools. 264 00:19:12,391 --> 00:19:17,651 It's a sad state of affairs. I did see a DOJ update, I guess, yesterday that maybe signaled 265 00:19:17,651 --> 00:19:19,411 that maybe we'll go in a different direction in the future. 266 00:19:19,551 --> 00:19:23,311 But, you know, for now, it's not a good look on that front. 267 00:19:23,371 --> 00:19:28,311 On the other hand, though, the actual tools are really exciting 268 00:19:28,311 --> 00:19:31,191 and just so much easier to use. 269 00:19:31,271 --> 00:19:33,831 And there's so many more options than there were five years ago. 270 00:19:34,991 --> 00:19:39,551 Just on, you know, on almost every level in terms of, you know, 271 00:19:39,591 --> 00:19:41,431 end user privacy options for Bitcoin. 272 00:19:42,291 --> 00:19:44,391 Stuff is just getting better and better. 273 00:19:45,111 --> 00:19:46,651 Lightning is getting easier to use. 274 00:19:46,651 --> 00:19:51,491 Matt and I were talking yesterday about the Spark stuff and, I mean, the wallet of Satoshi Beta. 275 00:19:51,771 --> 00:19:58,871 I mean, I know we're not talking about a replacement for if you need to coin join 100 UTXOs or something. 276 00:19:59,711 --> 00:20:05,131 But for like retail spending and fighting surveillance capitalism, we're getting there. 277 00:20:05,571 --> 00:20:15,491 Like, just by the 12 months from now, we're going to have three or four different ways to achieve very good privacy and pay merchants who speak lightning. 278 00:20:15,491 --> 00:20:21,911 and we just worked that's light years beyond where we were five years ago yeah now i was in 279 00:20:21,911 --> 00:20:27,611 uh georgia last week for the proto launch and spark was a big topic of discussion behind the 280 00:20:27,611 --> 00:20:33,571 scenes with the uh sort of technically oriented people that were at the event a lot of people 281 00:20:33,571 --> 00:20:38,951 really excited about spark now it's being implemented and i know we were a bit skeptical 282 00:20:38,951 --> 00:20:43,331 of them in the beginning but it seems like late spark has found something here with uh with spark 283 00:20:43,331 --> 00:20:46,131 and I think this happened since last week but 284 00:20:46,131 --> 00:20:48,131 it seems like the Rumble 285 00:20:48,131 --> 00:20:49,451 wallet 286 00:20:49,451 --> 00:20:52,051 will be implementing Spark as well 287 00:20:52,051 --> 00:20:53,851 yeah I saw 288 00:20:53,851 --> 00:20:56,391 well the Spark Twitter account 289 00:20:56,391 --> 00:20:57,011 said that 290 00:20:57,011 --> 00:20:59,911 it wasn't like a press release or anything but 291 00:20:59,911 --> 00:21:02,171 it did seem like they're implementing 292 00:21:02,171 --> 00:21:04,291 what like Tether has wallet development 293 00:21:04,291 --> 00:21:04,731 kit 294 00:21:04,731 --> 00:21:07,931 so I mean Rumble has a lot of users 295 00:21:07,931 --> 00:21:09,411 they have hundreds of millions of users 296 00:21:09,411 --> 00:21:12,071 so if they add a 297 00:21:12,071 --> 00:21:23,051 Bitcoin Tether wallet to rumble. Um, that is, uh, you know, no KYC, pretty easy to use, 298 00:21:23,051 --> 00:21:31,451 decent trust model in terms of rug risk. Um, I, the spark guys recently added the ability to, um, 299 00:21:32,871 --> 00:21:37,551 uh, to, to leave, to like leave on chain, settle on chain without, 300 00:21:37,551 --> 00:21:39,931 without asking permission to do so. 301 00:21:40,091 --> 00:21:40,311 Yeah. 302 00:21:40,551 --> 00:21:41,331 Which is key. 303 00:21:42,131 --> 00:21:45,291 You have like a pretty decent trade-off balance there. 304 00:21:46,031 --> 00:21:49,011 And I think the important thing is it needs to be really easy to use 305 00:21:49,011 --> 00:21:51,091 and it needs to be cheaper than the alternatives. 306 00:21:52,151 --> 00:21:53,811 So when you have that combination, 307 00:21:53,811 --> 00:21:56,231 then all of a sudden you start to see real scale. 308 00:21:56,931 --> 00:21:58,211 And I mean, to Alex's point, 309 00:21:58,851 --> 00:22:02,311 I mean, I wouldn't specifically call Spark a privacy tool, right? 310 00:22:02,331 --> 00:22:04,191 But when you use on-chain Bitcoin, 311 00:22:05,011 --> 00:22:06,651 you're leaking a lot of privacy. 312 00:22:07,551 --> 00:22:12,811 And then when you use a KYC wallet, you're obviously, your identity is tied to you. 313 00:22:14,091 --> 00:22:19,071 So we have like easy to use lightning enabled Spark and ARK wallets and stuff like that. 314 00:22:20,011 --> 00:22:23,491 At least for definitely for like smaller amounts, everyday purchases and stuff. 315 00:22:23,951 --> 00:22:26,451 You get like pretty decent gains there. 316 00:22:26,951 --> 00:22:29,331 And then you have to also think like, what is the status quo? 317 00:22:29,331 --> 00:22:33,591 The status quo is like people walking around and using like Apple Pay, Google Pay, credit cards. 318 00:22:33,591 --> 00:22:40,331 um well well we we were trying to tip the fly fishing guy bitcoin right and you were saying 319 00:22:40,331 --> 00:22:44,651 it was a little there's still bugs with something like a phoenix right where yeah i didn't catch 320 00:22:44,651 --> 00:22:52,931 many fish but me and eric were the only ones who orange pilled our god so um but we onboarded him 321 00:22:52,931 --> 00:22:58,991 to phoenix and by the end of the by the end of the trip i basically asked him i was like do you 322 00:22:58,991 --> 00:23:03,571 want you're tipping dollars or bitcoin and you said bitcoin it's a huge spot i was just a big win 323 00:23:03,571 --> 00:23:09,571 but did he get it before did he get it before pal's comments today yeah he's up he's up so he's 324 00:23:09,571 --> 00:23:14,351 very happy which is good because i did like cut some corners and i said like it's just 325 00:23:14,351 --> 00:23:21,711 you just hold it and it goes up forever uh it's better that we didn't dump the um 326 00:23:21,711 --> 00:23:27,851 but still there can be it's a little tricky uh with with the liquidity issues with with even 327 00:23:27,851 --> 00:23:33,411 something like a phoenix so r.i.p mutiny but i think the idea they had there is amazing it 328 00:23:33,411 --> 00:23:38,751 continues to be great of like maybe you'll have spark or arc or something like that which is for 329 00:23:38,751 --> 00:23:43,411 your first like hundred dollars worth it's just going to be there and then once you have more 330 00:23:43,411 --> 00:23:48,571 than a certain amount you know you go you go into self-custodial lightning no i think you go i think 331 00:23:48,571 --> 00:23:54,951 actually what it is probably makes more sense because that was the mutiny idea which has all 332 00:23:54,951 --> 00:24:00,951 these different ux hurdles like they could go in the spark trade-up model like you're probably fine 333 00:24:00,951 --> 00:24:05,851 with like a thousand to five thousand dollars in that wallet and then you settle on chain 334 00:24:05,851 --> 00:24:10,751 and then because on-chain self-custody is super easy yeah right like there's no 335 00:24:10,751 --> 00:24:17,951 like implementing that in the ux forward way would be actually relatively easy so if you imagine you 336 00:24:17,951 --> 00:24:23,271 have all these people who are getting bootstrapped in whether through and anything from just tips to 337 00:24:23,271 --> 00:24:25,631 gaming to remittances to who knows what. 338 00:24:26,891 --> 00:24:30,271 And they're all in different payment pools, whether it be ARK or Spark, etc. 339 00:24:30,831 --> 00:24:32,911 I mean, the beautiful things, they can all speak to each other via lightning. 340 00:24:33,231 --> 00:24:40,531 They can all buy stuff at hopefully the Square Merchant Terminal soon with, you know, they're 341 00:24:40,531 --> 00:24:43,791 speaking Spark or ARK or eCash. 342 00:24:43,791 --> 00:24:47,671 And yet they can pay a merchant and the merchant gets dollars. 343 00:24:48,291 --> 00:24:49,591 Or in Kenya, they get Tando. 344 00:24:49,891 --> 00:24:52,851 Or in Costa Rica, they get, you know, CIMPE credits. 345 00:24:53,271 --> 00:24:56,251 I think we're heading to a pretty exciting world from that perspective. 346 00:24:57,311 --> 00:25:05,671 Yeah, when you compare it, like I think the broader crypto, like a lot of the crew that was outside of the Bitcoin-focused crew in Jackson Hole this week, 347 00:25:06,171 --> 00:25:13,371 they probably see what's going on in L2s and Ethereum and Solana and all this bridging and stuff and these roll-ups and whatever it may be. 348 00:25:14,211 --> 00:25:17,611 And I haven't played around with it, but I've seen people playing around with it. 349 00:25:17,651 --> 00:25:20,391 And the UX around that is just completely abhorrent. 350 00:25:20,391 --> 00:25:22,731 and I don't think they're aware 351 00:25:22,731 --> 00:25:24,791 at all of the interoperable nature 352 00:25:24,791 --> 00:25:26,791 of all these different second layer 353 00:25:26,791 --> 00:25:28,911 solutions on Bitcoin 354 00:25:28,911 --> 00:25:29,871 because of the lightning. 355 00:25:32,331 --> 00:25:47,023 Yeah that the key right It the glue Yeah And just building on i think we have a pretty heavily privacy focused episode here considering the guests and just the headlines um over the last 356 00:25:47,023 --> 00:25:51,123 week we don't have a list so i'm just going off the top of the head but to your point earlier about 357 00:25:51,123 --> 00:26:00,243 on-chain transactions i think the regulators and sort of banking cabal is aware of this i'm sure 358 00:26:00,243 --> 00:26:14,683 You both saw the BIS come out with some idea to sort of track UTXOs and tag them with KYC information and essentially ask for people using WALS to self-report. 359 00:26:14,863 --> 00:26:21,643 Then they grade individual UTXOs and determine whether or not somebody should receive them or not. 360 00:26:22,283 --> 00:26:23,763 And I think these two froze. 361 00:26:23,963 --> 00:26:25,603 They've been having some technical difficulties. 362 00:26:25,603 --> 00:26:44,503 But I think the reason I bring this up is just to highlight the importance of building out these second-layer solutions that are more privacy-preserving than on-chain UTXOs, which are, as we all know, very hard to use in a private manner unless you know what you're doing. 363 00:26:44,503 --> 00:26:51,443 I think things like splicing in and out of the Lightning Network and doing channel management with that helps. 364 00:26:52,023 --> 00:26:55,803 PayJoin development kit, which HRF is contributing to. 365 00:26:56,683 --> 00:27:02,263 That would be massive if we could get exchanges to adopt PayJoin. 366 00:27:02,683 --> 00:27:04,703 We could increase on-chain privacy. 367 00:27:05,563 --> 00:27:08,483 But I don't think we should depend on that. 368 00:27:08,483 --> 00:27:23,923 I think it's become pretty clear that privacy via second layer solutions and a combination of second layer solutions is best in class right now for people trying to spend in a day-to-day way with Bitcoin. 369 00:27:25,383 --> 00:27:26,903 So I'm going to keep ad-libbing here. 370 00:27:27,703 --> 00:27:28,923 I'm just going to keep ad-libbing. 371 00:27:29,023 --> 00:27:30,583 Privacy, it's important. 372 00:27:30,763 --> 00:27:31,343 There you are. 373 00:27:33,263 --> 00:27:35,063 The laptop was in the heat. 374 00:27:35,843 --> 00:27:36,143 Oh. 375 00:27:36,143 --> 00:27:37,623 I really did. 376 00:27:37,623 --> 00:27:39,183 are you on your phone now 377 00:27:39,183 --> 00:27:42,183 what we're inside now we moved inside 378 00:27:42,183 --> 00:27:44,163 let's talk about the 379 00:27:44,163 --> 00:27:45,343 BIS did you guys see that 380 00:27:45,343 --> 00:27:48,163 no 381 00:27:48,163 --> 00:27:48,883 what happened 382 00:27:48,883 --> 00:27:50,603 they just released 383 00:27:50,603 --> 00:27:56,263 they want to like bag and tag UTXOs 384 00:27:56,263 --> 00:27:57,463 and have like a grading system 385 00:27:57,463 --> 00:27:58,163 about 386 00:27:58,163 --> 00:28:00,863 with ordinals right 387 00:28:00,863 --> 00:28:03,323 I think ordinals 388 00:28:03,323 --> 00:28:05,563 sort of prove that you can 389 00:28:05,563 --> 00:28:09,163 have ways to identify individual UTXOs. 390 00:28:09,243 --> 00:28:10,523 I think they're building on that concept 391 00:28:10,523 --> 00:28:13,803 to apply it to just broader UTXO usage. 392 00:28:18,063 --> 00:28:19,103 Yeah, I mean, 393 00:28:19,603 --> 00:28:21,223 this is where the PayMeInBitcoin thing 394 00:28:21,223 --> 00:28:22,203 becomes really important. 395 00:28:23,043 --> 00:28:26,083 You know, I was looking at this scheme in Thailand. 396 00:28:26,303 --> 00:28:27,563 I'm about to go visit there. 397 00:28:27,763 --> 00:28:28,763 There's a lot of like, 398 00:28:29,643 --> 00:28:30,603 not necessarily Bitcoin, 399 00:28:30,723 --> 00:28:32,963 but a lot of like stablecoin crypto adoption 400 00:28:32,963 --> 00:28:34,543 happening at the government level there. 401 00:28:34,543 --> 00:28:50,383 And they have this thing where now tourists can show up in Thailand with Bitcoin or whatever other crypto. And you can just at the airport change it into cash quickly on your phone in an app that pays any Thai merchant. Right. 402 00:28:50,383 --> 00:29:00,243 So they're trying to move in this direction where essentially they're going to harvest hard currency from tourists and force you to use their shitcoin. 403 00:29:00,783 --> 00:29:09,983 So basically, they'll harvest Bitcoin from tourists from America, Russia, wherever, who will then like, you know, go into their gated permissioned payment system. 404 00:29:10,923 --> 00:29:14,203 And I think the way to defeat that is pay me in Bitcoin. 405 00:29:14,203 --> 00:29:24,923 Right. So if the educational people in Thailand are successful enough and they can get enough word out and if people start to realize what's happening and the merchants just say, no, I don't want your shit coin. 406 00:29:25,023 --> 00:29:30,983 I'd pay me in Bitcoin. Then we can defeat this whole scheme, you know, which is which is ultimately the goal of BIS. 407 00:29:30,983 --> 00:29:38,083 Right. Is to, you know, have KYC Bitcoin exchanged for some kind of credit. 408 00:29:38,343 --> 00:29:44,003 Right. That would be accepted. But if the merchants accept Bitcoin, real Bitcoin. 409 00:29:44,003 --> 00:29:46,663 is anybody's Bitcoin, then we win. 410 00:29:46,863 --> 00:29:48,123 So that's kind of, I think, 411 00:29:48,143 --> 00:29:51,403 how we're structuring our programs at HRF moving forward 412 00:29:51,403 --> 00:29:53,303 is thinking about payment Bitcoin. 413 00:29:53,583 --> 00:29:56,403 Like how can we help get there as fast as possible 414 00:29:56,403 --> 00:30:00,943 for nonprofits, for journalists, 415 00:30:01,203 --> 00:30:02,862 for anybody operating around the world? 416 00:30:03,283 --> 00:30:05,443 How can they just live natively in Bitcoin? 417 00:30:05,683 --> 00:30:09,723 They can receive income, donations, profits. 418 00:30:10,103 --> 00:30:12,283 They can pay their colleagues and staffers. 419 00:30:12,503 --> 00:30:13,862 They can buy things on the internet. 420 00:30:14,003 --> 00:30:17,623 whether through BitRefill or other ways to do it. 421 00:30:18,323 --> 00:30:22,203 And then ultimately they can pay their local merchants and stuff. 422 00:30:22,703 --> 00:30:23,443 I mean, you'd be surprised. 423 00:30:23,603 --> 00:30:26,243 Like BitRefill in Turkey, you can buy anything with Bitcoin. 424 00:30:26,483 --> 00:30:27,443 You can buy groceries. 425 00:30:27,963 --> 00:30:30,003 You can buy an airplane. 426 00:30:30,203 --> 00:30:34,303 You can buy, you know, your internet, your phone. 427 00:30:34,543 --> 00:30:36,203 You can buy your electricity, your heating. 428 00:30:36,763 --> 00:30:38,383 And as we heard recently on Citadel, 429 00:30:39,043 --> 00:30:42,023 you can access any of the top AI models on Bitcoin now. 430 00:30:42,023 --> 00:30:49,403 So it's, you know, we want to get there. We want to get to living in Bitcoin, right? And then none of these schemes win, right? That's how we win. 431 00:30:49,403 --> 00:30:53,423 Yeah, because they rely on like the choke point on ramp of ramps. 432 00:30:54,303 --> 00:30:54,423 Yeah. 433 00:30:54,763 --> 00:31:05,823 I mean, speaking of living by the pay me in Bitcoin mantra, mentality, way of life, if you will, we do that here at Rabbit Hole Recap, particularly via Noster on zap.stream. 434 00:31:06,043 --> 00:31:10,723 We have a 21,000 sat zap from Chroma saying, let there be light. 435 00:31:11,143 --> 00:31:12,043 Thank you, Chroma. 436 00:31:12,043 --> 00:31:13,943 And then we have a question, too. 437 00:31:14,223 --> 00:31:15,323 Or not a question, really a comment. 438 00:31:15,323 --> 00:31:19,023 when we were talking about privacy, non-custodial versus custodial wallets. 439 00:31:19,862 --> 00:31:22,963 Can't read. The readable name isn't up yet, but somebody said, 440 00:31:23,023 --> 00:31:28,283 Shinobi Mr. Hoddle says, all normies will have custodial wallets they forget about and barely use. 441 00:31:28,983 --> 00:31:32,783 And yet, when they do, number will always go up. 442 00:31:34,163 --> 00:31:37,323 And I don't know if that was a comment about privacy, but I wanted to bring up the point, 443 00:31:37,323 --> 00:31:44,523 if normies are going to use custodial wallets, I would prefer it to be a cash-you, e-cash wallet. 444 00:31:44,523 --> 00:31:46,043 because yes, it's custodial. 445 00:31:46,343 --> 00:31:47,803 You're taking on third-party risk, 446 00:31:47,883 --> 00:31:49,583 but you get the privacy benefits. 447 00:31:50,463 --> 00:31:51,763 To Matt's point, what about Spark? 448 00:31:52,223 --> 00:31:54,283 I mean, that's a really interesting middle ground 449 00:31:54,283 --> 00:31:57,823 where it's essentially almost self-custodial, right? 450 00:31:58,243 --> 00:31:59,862 I mean, unilateral self-exit, right? 451 00:32:00,283 --> 00:32:02,283 Yeah, I mean, there's... 452 00:32:02,283 --> 00:32:02,783 There's problems. 453 00:32:03,163 --> 00:32:04,362 You're going to trigger Matt Corallo. 454 00:32:04,543 --> 00:32:05,263 Matt Corallo's going to have some good advice. 455 00:32:05,263 --> 00:32:05,862 What about Spark? 456 00:32:06,023 --> 00:32:07,543 I mean, my point is that like... 457 00:32:07,543 --> 00:32:09,163 I mean, he said the word self-custody. 458 00:32:09,443 --> 00:32:09,823 I was dodging. 459 00:32:09,823 --> 00:32:10,603 I said almost. 460 00:32:10,763 --> 00:32:11,403 I said almost. 461 00:32:11,523 --> 00:32:12,723 I don't want to trigger Corallo. 462 00:32:12,903 --> 00:32:13,763 I don't want to trigger Corallo. 463 00:32:13,763 --> 00:32:24,303 I dodged the term. I mean, I think we probably need more terms now because it's somewhere in the middle, right? Like, so cash you, you're like unilaterally trusting the Mint, but you have very strong privacy. 464 00:32:24,523 --> 00:32:26,323 Right. And the Mint can't selectively censor you. 465 00:32:26,323 --> 00:32:27,983 Right. Because you have very strong privacy. 466 00:32:28,243 --> 00:32:28,383 Yeah. 467 00:32:28,743 --> 00:32:43,443 And then with Spark, I think they're going to make their trust model even better. It's like kind of probably closer to something like Liquid, right? Where like you almost have like a multi-sig, like a multi-sig type federation type of model. 468 00:32:43,763 --> 00:32:47,263 but better than liquid because you have the unilateral exit. 469 00:32:47,263 --> 00:32:50,943 So you can just go to on chain, but then you also have the nuance of, okay, 470 00:32:50,943 --> 00:32:54,243 like if you only have a thousand sets, like, can you really go on chain? 471 00:32:54,243 --> 00:32:56,923 Like now you're like going to just pay it on the fee, 472 00:32:57,143 --> 00:33:01,243 but you have the right to do that. So, I mean, I think it's, 473 00:33:02,243 --> 00:33:06,303 I think that the absolute statements in general, 474 00:33:06,303 --> 00:33:09,583 like everyone's going to be using custodial wallets or this or that is just 475 00:33:09,583 --> 00:33:16,243 inherently wrong because where we're going and where we should be going is give people as many 476 00:33:16,243 --> 00:33:22,263 tools as possible. And then, you know, let them pick the tools that work best for their model. 477 00:33:22,343 --> 00:33:26,563 Like there's no such thing as like the best Bitcoin wallet. Like it really depends on like, 478 00:33:26,563 --> 00:33:32,623 what is your threat model? What is your technical competence and what is your use case? Right. And 479 00:33:32,623 --> 00:33:36,383 I think that's the case with a lot of open source tools. I mean, that's the same with 480 00:33:36,383 --> 00:33:39,883 Nostra apps. It's like, what is the best Nostra app? Like the best Nostra app doesn't exist. 481 00:33:40,623 --> 00:33:45,383 What do you need it for? And what is your technical competence? And just to bring it 482 00:33:45,383 --> 00:33:49,943 full circle to your original comment, like, I think that BitChat update is kind of fascinating 483 00:33:49,943 --> 00:33:55,603 to me. I haven't really got to dive deep in it, but, you know, release one of BitChat was, 484 00:33:55,603 --> 00:33:59,763 you know, you have to use a Bluetooth mesh and you have to be near each other. And that birth, 485 00:33:59,763 --> 00:34:06,943 that meme of i was actually in a park bathroom with uh alex and i was peeing in the urinal next 486 00:34:06,943 --> 00:34:10,863 to him he's like you want to send me a bit chat message like that meme where like they walk over 487 00:34:10,863 --> 00:34:19,082 next to you um and uh but now it's using nostril relays right so yeah if you're if you have no 488 00:34:19,082 --> 00:34:25,102 internet you can use the bluetooth mesh um but if if you do have internet then you could communicate 489 00:34:25,102 --> 00:34:28,483 with people leveraging existing internet infrastructure. 490 00:34:29,563 --> 00:34:31,463 And so that's a specific tool, 491 00:34:31,863 --> 00:34:35,203 which within itself has different, 492 00:34:35,843 --> 00:34:38,543 basically like use cases or tools within it, 493 00:34:38,602 --> 00:34:40,183 like depending on your current situation 494 00:34:40,183 --> 00:34:41,223 and how you want to use it. 495 00:34:42,443 --> 00:34:44,602 And also just, if you think about some facts, 496 00:34:44,683 --> 00:34:47,523 like if you look at Bitcoin in five-year increments 497 00:34:47,523 --> 00:34:48,523 as it evolves, right? 498 00:34:48,523 --> 00:34:53,703 So let's call it whatever, the early years up through 499 00:34:53,703 --> 00:34:59,563 even really 2019, it was essentially on chain, right? There weren't really any other usable 500 00:34:59,563 --> 00:35:03,043 things. You had like some prototypes, but it was pretty much on chain only, 501 00:35:03,582 --> 00:35:08,543 you know, which is difficult for a lot of people that they, you know, there's limitations there, 502 00:35:08,602 --> 00:35:12,582 obviously. And then you look at the next five years and then we have lightning and lightning 503 00:35:12,582 --> 00:35:18,023 powered stuff. Right. And then in the last couple of years, all of a sudden we have eCash, we have 504 00:35:18,023 --> 00:35:22,923 Spark, we're going to have ARK. Like, I think it's reasonable to conclude that over time, 505 00:35:22,923 --> 00:35:27,743 as more and more developers and brilliant people come into the space who just weren't here in 2015. 506 00:35:29,063 --> 00:35:31,803 You're going to get more and more clever ways to use Bitcoin. 507 00:35:31,803 --> 00:35:38,163 And like, I think pretty obviously it won't be everybody using a custodial wallet, 508 00:35:38,383 --> 00:35:45,102 especially if they can use something like a Spark where they get awesome speed and, you know, 509 00:35:45,223 --> 00:35:48,903 they can use it permissionlessly and don't have to attach their ID to it. 510 00:35:48,963 --> 00:35:51,863 And they get some kind of guarantee that they can't really get rugged. 511 00:35:52,923 --> 00:35:55,623 I mean, you're going to see more adoption in that sort of thing. 512 00:35:55,843 --> 00:36:07,483 I mean, the coolest part is, so like one of the biggest issues we had with any of these kind of things was then you had to like bootstrap adoption for each of them and they all had like independent network effects. 513 00:36:07,983 --> 00:36:14,082 And like when the computer overheated, like that's exactly what we're talking about. 514 00:36:14,082 --> 00:36:20,743 Like the fact that, you know, you can build a spark and then it can immediately pay any other lightning enabled wallet. 515 00:36:21,163 --> 00:36:22,303 Or it could pay an ARC user. 516 00:36:22,303 --> 00:36:26,983 because that is also using lightning yeah makes it so much easier and then it also means that 517 00:36:26,983 --> 00:36:33,803 success doesn't have to be 90 of people using an arc wallet right it still can be a successful 518 00:36:33,803 --> 00:36:40,543 very useful tooling layer um if if a small subset are using it because it's still cross compatible 519 00:36:40,543 --> 00:36:46,443 with every other wallet and people are really on that they don't i don't and it's something that 520 00:36:46,443 --> 00:36:53,102 crypto community is so off base on because we talked about this uh in the past about you know 521 00:36:53,102 --> 00:36:59,203 using coinbase's like social media thing um is they have all these different protocols and you 522 00:36:59,203 --> 00:37:04,023 have to do swaps and you have to do this and do that you have you have usdc on the wrong chain 523 00:37:04,023 --> 00:37:07,163 and then you need gas from this thing or that or whatever and then with lightning it just 524 00:37:07,163 --> 00:37:13,423 fucking works yeah and the and i i do want to give a shout out to the wallet devs of all these 525 00:37:13,423 --> 00:37:19,803 different sort of second layer implementations because i've been using macadamia for e-cash 526 00:37:19,803 --> 00:37:24,943 and lightning just playing around with it and i just scan the qr code whether i have 527 00:37:24,943 --> 00:37:33,823 bitcoin in a custodial lightning account on macadamia or e-cash in a more private custodial 528 00:37:33,823 --> 00:37:37,743 account macadamia if i pay a lightning invoice i don't even know which one it pulls from it just 529 00:37:37,743 --> 00:37:48,582 pays it and that's the ux you want in the um speaking of bitchat too tied and not on bitchat 530 00:37:48,582 --> 00:37:55,563 normie is actually i take this back that was very disrespectful of me my brother is not a normie 531 00:37:55,563 --> 00:38:00,503 but i demoed bitchat to my my brother we were together this week i was like download bitchat 532 00:38:00,503 --> 00:38:06,463 he's like what is it i was like for like four years i know my brother's not a normie i'm sorry 533 00:38:06,463 --> 00:38:07,623 Sorry, Connor. 534 00:38:07,623 --> 00:38:08,463 Everybody knows who you are. 535 00:38:08,463 --> 00:38:09,463 I'm sorry. 536 00:38:09,463 --> 00:38:12,463 But we were together. 537 00:38:12,463 --> 00:38:15,463 I was like, turn off your cell data, turn off your Wi-Fi. 538 00:38:15,463 --> 00:38:17,463 And we were having a message back and forth with everything off. 539 00:38:17,463 --> 00:38:29,234 And it was just like a mind experience Like oh crap This is awesome yeah and i mean i and on to further just go down 540 00:38:29,234 --> 00:38:34,074 like that rabbit hole like that's a perfect example where that's something where cash you 541 00:38:34,074 --> 00:38:39,554 actually is really helpful right because cash you at the end of the day is a bearer instrument 542 00:38:39,554 --> 00:38:45,034 they're bearer ious so you're able to just transfer those offline program programmatically 543 00:38:45,034 --> 00:38:49,554 um so that's a situation where like if you want to do bitcoin transfers in a mesh 544 00:38:49,554 --> 00:38:52,814 or on bitchat or whatever and any kind of encrypted messenger 545 00:38:52,814 --> 00:38:57,794 you can use cash you but you can't really use spark or arc and so like i think we're going to 546 00:38:57,794 --> 00:39:04,554 start seeing these different um you know protocols kind of carve out their own niches and use cases 547 00:39:04,554 --> 00:39:11,994 where they're most useful and then they'll all work together with lightning yeah and building on that 548 00:39:11,994 --> 00:39:18,034 it seems like we were talking about the bis earlier but if you look at some parts of the world 549 00:39:18,034 --> 00:39:26,034 that i think many of us up until recently would have considered pretty liberal and forward thinking 550 00:39:26,034 --> 00:39:30,834 when it came to free speech and freedom of expression have reverse course there particularly 551 00:39:30,834 --> 00:39:38,794 in the united kingdom in britain and they've had crazy laws started with hate speech laws and got 552 00:39:38,794 --> 00:39:42,314 age verification laws than you had. Apparently, they have 553 00:39:42,314 --> 00:39:47,154 a commissioner of children in the UK. 554 00:39:47,154 --> 00:39:51,154 She was on the BBC earlier this week. She was pressed by 555 00:39:51,154 --> 00:39:54,814 the BBC interviewer. Should we have age verification for VPNs? 556 00:39:55,114 --> 00:39:58,454 She was very adamant. Yes, of course, we should. 557 00:39:58,914 --> 00:40:03,034 These tools, whether you need them or not, if you're listening, 558 00:40:03,894 --> 00:40:06,954 maybe you don't need them. Maybe you live in an area where 559 00:40:06,954 --> 00:40:13,794 free speech is still protected. But I think the need for these tools is becoming more and more 560 00:40:13,794 --> 00:40:19,494 critical by the day. And so BitChat can solve all three of that. All three of those. 561 00:40:19,494 --> 00:40:24,854 They want KYC people to edit Wikipedia in the UK now. That's what the government wants to do. 562 00:40:25,114 --> 00:40:28,154 So we're heading in that direction, right? I think the reason you need to remain, 563 00:40:28,654 --> 00:40:32,594 or I remain super bullish is just we're heading in a direction where they become 564 00:40:32,594 --> 00:40:36,334 more permissioned, more gated off, more proprietary. 565 00:40:37,294 --> 00:40:38,214 You know, we can't just, 566 00:40:38,734 --> 00:40:39,954 devs can't just build a wallet 567 00:40:39,954 --> 00:40:42,054 that connects with the US dollar network, right? 568 00:40:42,054 --> 00:40:42,834 That's impossible. 569 00:40:43,294 --> 00:40:45,654 But you're seeing an explosion of people come in 570 00:40:45,654 --> 00:40:48,514 and build stuff that can speak Lightning or Bitcoin. 571 00:40:48,794 --> 00:40:51,054 So I remain pretty bullish. 572 00:40:51,214 --> 00:40:52,374 And, you know, LightSpark, 573 00:40:52,454 --> 00:40:53,994 it's an interesting actor in the space 574 00:40:53,994 --> 00:40:54,894 because they're kind of like, 575 00:40:55,314 --> 00:40:58,694 they're going after bigger establishment fish. 576 00:40:59,794 --> 00:41:02,314 What was the big one they landed? 577 00:41:02,314 --> 00:41:09,354 the other week. So far. Yeah. I mean, so again, that might be in a, in a corporate way, 578 00:41:09,354 --> 00:41:15,354 but at the end of the day, like if you can pay spark, you know, if it's spark speaks lightning, 579 00:41:15,514 --> 00:41:20,214 it's, you know, it starts to get very interesting. So, you know, light spark won't be the only 580 00:41:20,214 --> 00:41:24,374 company in that space. That's, that's kind of pushing in this direction. 581 00:41:25,374 --> 00:41:30,674 No, no, it's critical. And Matt, I think you'll like, I think you'll be okay with this, 582 00:41:30,674 --> 00:41:31,894 but on the subject of VPNs, 583 00:41:31,894 --> 00:41:32,734 we got a new sponsor, 584 00:41:32,974 --> 00:41:33,394 Obscura, 585 00:41:34,914 --> 00:41:36,554 Cantlog, 586 00:41:36,794 --> 00:41:37,614 Carl Dong, 587 00:41:37,814 --> 00:41:38,274 Bitcoiner. 588 00:41:38,834 --> 00:41:40,034 I think you guys supported him 589 00:41:40,034 --> 00:41:40,454 back in the day 590 00:41:40,454 --> 00:41:41,374 when he was doing Geeks builds, 591 00:41:41,874 --> 00:41:43,134 if I recall correctly, 592 00:41:43,934 --> 00:41:44,714 for Bitcoin Core, 593 00:41:45,194 --> 00:41:46,134 reproducible builds. 594 00:41:46,514 --> 00:41:48,214 Went and created Obscura VPN. 595 00:41:49,274 --> 00:41:50,194 Has a very novel 596 00:41:50,194 --> 00:41:52,014 hopping system. 597 00:41:52,134 --> 00:41:53,254 Used the code RHR25 598 00:41:53,254 --> 00:41:56,034 for 25% off an annual subscription. 599 00:41:56,174 --> 00:41:56,654 It's a great deal. 600 00:41:57,294 --> 00:41:57,994 You got to let the person know. 601 00:41:58,014 --> 00:41:58,454 It's a great deal. 602 00:41:58,794 --> 00:41:59,254 Yeah, look, 603 00:41:59,254 --> 00:41:59,714 we have, 604 00:41:59,714 --> 00:42:13,574 At RHR, if you've listened for a while, we have trouble finding sponsors because the worst products will pay you the most, but you don't want to recommend bad products. 605 00:42:13,574 --> 00:42:22,734 So you need to find people that are actually aligned with you and ideologically aligned with you and directionally aligned with you that are offering really good, solid product. 606 00:42:22,734 --> 00:42:29,114 and also in a lot of those situations we will recommend them regardless so then they don't 607 00:42:29,114 --> 00:42:32,414 really have an incentive to pay us so it's kind of we kind of get hit on both sides of that 608 00:42:32,414 --> 00:42:38,414 on that sponsor issue but i mean i will say personally i'm very excited to have obscure 609 00:42:38,414 --> 00:42:45,154 on board so what they're doing is um is is basically mulvads hosting one server they're 610 00:42:45,154 --> 00:42:52,394 hosting one server so to say cant log is a little bit uh it's a little bit more nuanced than that 611 00:42:52,394 --> 00:42:58,514 they have to work together to log you, which is just a strictly better trust model than if you're only using Mulvad. 612 00:42:59,234 --> 00:43:09,474 Or if you're only using, you know, if you're using a single VPN provider, like it's a completely trusted relationship and you have to trust that they're not tracking your activity. 613 00:43:10,594 --> 00:43:12,234 Well, shout out to Obscura. 614 00:43:12,234 --> 00:43:24,594 We just launched with the help of Justin Moon and some others, a short little resource at href.org slash AI with a bunch of different tools that people can use today to start making their AI use more private. 615 00:43:25,774 --> 00:43:27,574 And obviously, some of that is VPN related. 616 00:43:27,694 --> 00:43:28,914 We talk about Obscura, Mulved. 617 00:43:29,294 --> 00:43:32,434 Some of it is related to not needing KYC. 618 00:43:32,534 --> 00:43:37,014 So we talk about PaperCue and Routster and some other tools. 619 00:43:37,474 --> 00:43:38,694 We also talk about Maple. 620 00:43:39,914 --> 00:43:41,254 So, you know, you go and check that out. 621 00:43:41,254 --> 00:43:41,974 It's kind of interesting. 622 00:43:42,234 --> 00:43:45,534 we're going to be doing more and more in that space where you have this overlap of 623 00:43:45,534 --> 00:43:50,334 paying for AI use using Bitcoin or Lightning or Spark or ARK or whatever. 624 00:43:50,774 --> 00:43:52,774 So yeah, that's exciting. 625 00:43:53,674 --> 00:43:58,514 Yeah, I need to catch up with Callie because I've seen him send some notes and some tweets 626 00:43:58,514 --> 00:44:03,074 out about this subject, but it intuitively makes sense to me that actually like eCash 627 00:44:03,074 --> 00:44:09,734 for if you're going to create payments for an agentic world where agents are paying each other, 628 00:44:09,734 --> 00:44:21,014 I think he makes a pretty good case that eCash is actually the best solution to that specific problem just due to the way the sort of data transfer works for eCash tokens. 629 00:44:21,014 --> 00:44:23,294 so Callie if you're listening 630 00:44:23,294 --> 00:44:25,274 I would love to discuss that 631 00:44:25,274 --> 00:44:27,134 because I think that we're going to go through 632 00:44:27,134 --> 00:44:28,574 sort of a valley of 633 00:44:28,574 --> 00:44:31,214 Silicon Valley being like stable coins 634 00:44:31,214 --> 00:44:33,534 are the currency of the agents 635 00:44:33,534 --> 00:44:35,254 or this AI 636 00:44:35,254 --> 00:44:37,434 token connected 637 00:44:37,434 --> 00:44:39,334 to this real world asset is what 638 00:44:39,334 --> 00:44:41,294 the agents are going to use to pay but I think at the 639 00:44:41,294 --> 00:44:41,874 end of the day 640 00:44:41,874 --> 00:44:45,374 all money converges to the best money which is Bitcoin 641 00:44:45,374 --> 00:44:47,474 and the different 642 00:44:47,474 --> 00:44:49,434 ways the different avenues to send 643 00:44:49,434 --> 00:44:55,654 it. And I think agents will be spending and receiving Bitcoin at the end of the day. And I 644 00:44:55,654 --> 00:45:01,394 would not be surprised if it's via eCash. Yeah, I don't understand the stablecoin thing. And 645 00:45:01,394 --> 00:45:06,794 I have a piece in Reason Magazine coming out soon on stablecoins. And they're certainly 646 00:45:06,794 --> 00:45:11,334 globally important and they're going to grow and they're going to become huge and way bigger than 647 00:45:11,334 --> 00:45:16,134 they are now. But if you think about what they are, even if they become in the trillions in 648 00:45:16,134 --> 00:45:20,874 terms of market cap and they start to dominate in different areas, they're totally orthogonal to 649 00:45:20,874 --> 00:45:25,494 Bitcoin. They're guaranteed to lose money. I think Jeff Booth calls them guaranteed to lose coins. 650 00:45:26,114 --> 00:45:31,134 So they're guaranteed to lose money. They can be frozen. They can be censored. They can be 651 00:45:31,134 --> 00:45:35,874 confiscated. They don't really compete with Bitcoin in that regard. So I think eventually 652 00:45:35,874 --> 00:45:41,194 you're going to see this bear out, especially when it comes to AI tools. I mean, I just don't 653 00:45:41,194 --> 00:45:45,994 really get it. Unless it was forced to, why would these open AI networks want to get paid 654 00:45:45,994 --> 00:45:47,794 in something that they have no control over. 655 00:45:48,154 --> 00:45:48,954 So we'll have to see. 656 00:45:51,294 --> 00:45:52,114 Completely agree. 657 00:45:53,194 --> 00:45:54,834 Freaks, it's Friday afternoon. 658 00:45:55,034 --> 00:45:56,874 We're keeping it tight because of the events 659 00:45:56,874 --> 00:46:00,814 that Matt and Alex are attending out west. 660 00:46:00,914 --> 00:46:02,574 They got to go to dinner with Jerome Powell tonight 661 00:46:02,574 --> 00:46:07,154 to really update him on all these new second layer solutions 662 00:46:07,154 --> 00:46:09,574 and the interoperability of the Lightning Network 663 00:46:09,574 --> 00:46:12,974 and how Bitcoin is going to replace SWIFT, not XRP. 664 00:46:13,814 --> 00:46:15,834 You guys got to go elbow out Brad Garlinghouse 665 00:46:15,834 --> 00:46:17,534 to make sure he doesn't get a... 666 00:46:17,534 --> 00:46:18,234 Actually, you know what? 667 00:46:18,274 --> 00:46:20,694 Let Brad Garlinghouse lead Jerome Powell and crew 668 00:46:20,694 --> 00:46:21,614 the wrong way. 669 00:46:21,734 --> 00:46:23,334 You guys should actually entice them 670 00:46:23,334 --> 00:46:24,254 to go get drinks tonight. 671 00:46:25,754 --> 00:46:26,594 No, I will just... 672 00:46:26,594 --> 00:46:28,034 I mean, jokes aside, I think, 673 00:46:28,094 --> 00:46:30,814 you know, as an American, 674 00:46:31,194 --> 00:46:33,094 it really pains me to watch 675 00:46:33,094 --> 00:46:36,174 the country take the bad trajectory. 676 00:46:36,654 --> 00:46:37,814 Like, it's better for all of us 677 00:46:37,814 --> 00:46:40,674 if we can kind of steer them away from it. 678 00:46:41,474 --> 00:46:43,814 And it is inevitable, but like... 679 00:46:43,814 --> 00:46:56,514 But if you can lessen the pain and the bad decisions and how they affect like the average pensioner or the average, you know, American, it's a worthy goal. 680 00:46:56,514 --> 00:47:02,954 I don't know how successful you'll be, but I mean, that was part of the reason why I came down for this week's events. 681 00:47:03,134 --> 00:47:12,194 Right. Like I didn't. I was very aware that the SALT event was going to be mostly suits focused on crypto. 682 00:47:12,194 --> 00:47:34,014 Right. But I convince a couple of them that maybe, you know, we're doing it the wrong way. I think you can have massive, massive wins. And I don't pretend like I'm going to ever convince Charles Hoskinson or Brad Garlinghouse because they just going to follow their pockets. It is what it is. But if you convince some other random person. 683 00:47:34,014 --> 00:47:46,534 Well, also, just closing thought, we're just sitting here and thinking about the injustice of how a small group of people can arbitrarily decide, again, the cost of capital, the rules of the money system for the whole world. 684 00:47:46,614 --> 00:47:56,494 Why should they have a decision making power over the lives of billions of people in places like, you know, whether it be Nigeria or Pakistan or China or Indonesia or wherever? 685 00:47:56,494 --> 00:48:03,934 I mean, it's just so crazy that this unelected tiny group of people get to decide what's best for everybody. 686 00:48:04,054 --> 00:48:07,414 And nobody has an alternative until now. 687 00:48:07,714 --> 00:48:11,254 So I just continue to be so inspired by Bitcoin. 688 00:48:11,534 --> 00:48:15,174 Matt and I visited a place called Inspiration Point this morning. 689 00:48:15,534 --> 00:48:22,634 So we're inspired by a new system where the small cartel of people don't get to make the rules. 690 00:48:22,634 --> 00:48:26,254 By the way, Marty, do you know why they do the event in Jackson? 691 00:48:26,494 --> 00:48:27,994 Alex asked the AI. 692 00:48:28,974 --> 00:48:29,554 The Fed event. 693 00:48:30,494 --> 00:48:31,674 I do not. 694 00:48:33,814 --> 00:48:36,894 It's because they just wanted to go fly fishing. 695 00:48:37,314 --> 00:48:38,614 So they decided. 696 00:48:39,234 --> 00:48:46,994 Paul Volcker, who many freaks will know, famous, famous Fed chair who spiked the rates to kill inflation in the early 80s. 697 00:48:46,994 --> 00:48:50,634 He was a totally addicted fly fisherman. 698 00:48:50,634 --> 00:48:54,334 and the KC Fed Board, which was responsible for putting together the meeting, 699 00:48:54,414 --> 00:48:59,334 decided to lure him here by putting the event here in the Jackson Hole area. 700 00:48:59,854 --> 00:49:02,494 And that would ensure that he would come because so he could fly fish. 701 00:49:02,834 --> 00:49:03,934 So there's your trivia for the day. 702 00:49:04,054 --> 00:49:08,434 And then it had Lindy and now it's 40 years later and it's just still here every year. 703 00:49:08,494 --> 00:49:09,274 Yeah, it's crazy. 704 00:49:09,434 --> 00:49:10,634 Well, three points. 705 00:49:11,754 --> 00:49:12,514 Incredible pun. 706 00:49:12,694 --> 00:49:13,374 I caught that. 707 00:49:13,594 --> 00:49:14,554 It was incredible. 708 00:49:15,334 --> 00:49:19,094 Two, Paul Volcker, if he's the one who decided, you know what? 709 00:49:19,094 --> 00:49:19,774 I'm okay with it. 710 00:49:20,094 --> 00:49:20,254 Okay. 711 00:49:20,254 --> 00:49:25,494 He did the hard thing when it was unpopular back in the 70s, jacked him up to 18%. 712 00:49:26,254 --> 00:49:28,734 Paul, if you want to go fishing, you can. 713 00:49:29,494 --> 00:49:32,714 And then number three, Alex, to your point, that cabal is only going to get smaller. 714 00:49:32,714 --> 00:49:37,994 And I think today, really to tie up this whole conversation and bring it back to what we started with, 715 00:49:38,114 --> 00:49:49,374 I think Trump and Bessent successfully bullied Powell to sort of ease rates at a time when many people didn't think he wanted to. 716 00:49:49,374 --> 00:50:05,914 And I think that's a big theme about this whole squabble between Trump and Powell over the last year, even before the election, is that I think it's pretty clear that the Trump administration and Scott Busset would like to bring more control over the monetary system within the Treasury. 717 00:50:05,914 --> 00:50:08,794 and I think we're headed down this path. 718 00:50:08,894 --> 00:50:13,574 They need consolidated, uniform policy across the Fed 719 00:50:13,574 --> 00:50:17,094 and the Treasury, which aren't really separate, 720 00:50:17,254 --> 00:50:19,334 but there has been this facade that they're separate. 721 00:50:19,534 --> 00:50:21,214 And I think what we're witnessing right now 722 00:50:21,214 --> 00:50:25,274 is the dissolution of that facade even. 723 00:50:25,274 --> 00:50:28,234 And it's just going to be clear that the money 724 00:50:28,234 --> 00:50:30,354 is going to become more centralized here in the United States 725 00:50:30,354 --> 00:50:32,054 and the policy around it. 726 00:50:34,574 --> 00:50:35,434 I agree. 727 00:50:35,914 --> 00:50:38,374 well gentlemen 728 00:50:38,374 --> 00:50:39,494 thank you for 729 00:50:39,494 --> 00:50:41,994 doing the hard things 730 00:50:41,994 --> 00:50:44,294 getting your elbows dirty 731 00:50:44,294 --> 00:50:46,054 with a bunch of altcoiners 732 00:50:46,054 --> 00:50:47,274 and central bankers 733 00:50:47,274 --> 00:50:48,354 I know it's not easy work 734 00:50:48,354 --> 00:50:50,954 but it's very important work 735 00:50:50,954 --> 00:50:53,854 trying to do our best here 736 00:50:53,854 --> 00:50:55,534 I'm just glad I didn't fall down the hill 737 00:50:55,534 --> 00:50:56,894 while trying to set up RHR 738 00:50:56,894 --> 00:50:59,534 but another week we made it happen 739 00:50:59,534 --> 00:51:01,734 huge shout out to Alex for joining us 740 00:51:01,734 --> 00:51:02,754 thank you guys 741 00:51:02,754 --> 00:51:03,974 I love your freaks 742 00:51:03,974 --> 00:51:05,054 stay on the same set 743 00:51:05,054 --> 00:51:06,434 peace and love 744 00:51:06,434 --> 00:51:06,874 okay